* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [00:00:04] WE ARE NOW AT [1. CALL TO ORDER AND ROLL CALL OF MEMBERS] FIVE 30. IF SOMEONE WOULD LIKE TO CALL THE MINUTES OR CALL THE MEETING TO ORDER, THEN MY SUGGESTION IS ONCE, AND IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO SOMEONE JUST SAYS, CALL THE MEETING TO ORDER AND STATE THE TIME FOR THE RECORD AFTER THAT, UM, AMONGST THE FOUR OF YOU, SOMEONE DECIDE WHO WANTS TO CHAIR THE MEETING FOR THIS ONE MEETING, HAVE A VOTE ON THAT, AND THEN THAT PERSON WILL PROCEED TO GO IN ORDER OF THE AGENDA AS IT'S ORDERED. I CALL THE MEETING ORDER AT FIVE THIRTY THREE. I WOULD ALSO ASK, UM, OUR , OUR MICROPHONES ARE A LITTLE TRICKY. YOU HAVE TO TURN THEM ON TO MAKE SURE THE LITTLE GREEN LIGHT IS ON AND GET REALLY CLOSE TO IT. OTHERWISE IT WON'T PICK UP WITH ALL THE HVAC STUFF. SO GET ABOUT AS CLOSE AS I AM TO IT. I CALL THE MEETING TO ORDER AT 5 33. SO THEN WE NEED TO, UM, DO WE NEED TO SECOND THAT? I'LL SECOND THAT. OOPS. DOESN'T REQUIRE A SECOND. JUST CALLING ME TO ORDER IS SUFFICIENT, BUT AT THIS POINT, YOU'D PROBABLY NEED TO PICK WHO'S GOING TO CHAIR THE MEETING. OKAY. IS THERE ANYBODY, WOULD YOU LIKE TO, ANYBODY WHO HAS A PRE A PREFERENCE? I CAN. YOU CAN. I MEAN, MARK, DO YOU WANT TO OR DO YOU WANT HER? WE'RE GONNA PICK ONE OF US TO CHAIR THE MEETING, I THINK. DO YOU WANT I DON'T HAVE TO, BUT WHO'S GOING TO? I I DON'T MIND SHARING THE MEETING. OKAY. OKAY. GOOD. I WILL CHAIR THE MEETING. ALL RIGHT. UH, LET'S DO A CALL TO ORDER AND A ROLL CALL OF MEMBERS. UH, MARK LARS HERE. UH, LESLIE HERE. THANK YOU. UM, MCKERNAN. THANK YOU. LUANN HERE. AND LAURA TEITSWORTH. UH, ABSENT WILL BE TODD KINSEY AND ROXANNE LEWIS. UM, OUR NEXT [2. APPROVAL OF AUGUST 17, 2023 AND JANUARY 31. 2024 CSRC MEETING MINUTES] AGENDA, UM, IS GOING TO BE APPROVAL OF AUGUST 17TH, 2023 AND JANUARY 31, 24. UH, CSRC MEETING MINUTES. UH, IS THAT THE, DID WE ALREADY APPROVE THE AUGUST 17? NO, I'M GOING TO, THAT WE APPROVED HERE MINUTES. OKAY. THAT WE, JAN WELL, ON THE JANUARY ONE, WHICH WAS THE LAST ONE WE DID, I HAVE A QUESTION ON THAT ONE. UH, WHEN WE LAST MET, MY UNDERSTANDING WAS THAT WE WOULD HAVE CITY COUNCIL TELL US IF IT WAS 18 AND UNDER THAT WE NEEDED TO BE LOOKING AT. IS IT, IS THAT CORRECT? UM, WHAT HAPPENED AT THE LAST MEETING IS THE COMMITTEE MADE ITS OWN INTERNAL RULE THAT IT WOULD ONLY VIEW THOSE PARTICULAR THINGS. AND AT THAT POINT, ABSENT SOME FURTHER ACTION, THAT IS GOING TO BE THE RULE OF THE COMMITTEE UNTIL AND IF COUNSEL SAYS OTHERWISE. OKAY. SO WE CAN'T ASK COUNSEL IF THAT'S WHAT THEY INTENDED. YOU CAN ASK, BUT ULTIMATELY THE VEHICLE THAT WOULD ACTUALLY GET IT ON THE AGENDA, UM, THE WAY OUR, OUR INTERNAL PROTOCOLS ARE SET UP, IT'S EITHER THE MAYOR OR TWO MEMBERS OF COUNCIL HAVE TO SPONSOR AN ITEM. THERE'S SOME OTHER THINGS AS WELL, SOME OTHER LIMITED EXCEPTIONS, BUT IT, IT IS AS IT IS. SO COUNCIL, IF THEY WANT TO TAKE ACTION, THEY CERTAINLY ARE FREE TO DO SO, BUT YOU CANNOT COMPEL ACTION ON THE SIDE OF COUNCIL. OKAY. SO ARE WE STAYING WITH, DON'T WE NEED TO APPROVE MINUTES BEFORE WE GO FORWARD ON DISCUSSION OF ITEMS IN THIS ONE? THAT'S WHAT WE WERE TRYING TO DO. UM, IF YOU CAN MAKE SURE YOUR, THE LITTLE GREEN LIGHT ON YOUR MICROPHONE IS, IS ON. IF IT'S AND IF NOT, UH, UM, I THOUGHT WE JUST, MY, MY QUESTION IS, DON'T WE HAVE TO APPROVE THE MINUTES OF THE PREVIOUS MEETING, UH, MEETINGS BEFORE WE CAN CONTINUE TO DISCUSS NEW BUSINESS AND WHOLE BUSINESS IN THIS MEETING? THAT'S WHAT WE WERE DOING. I WAS JUST, I WAS QUESTIONING THE MINUTES FROM JANUARY 31ST. 'CAUSE I HAD THOUGHT THAT WE WERE GOING TO HEAR BACK FROM CITY COUNCIL OF WHETHER OR NOT 'CAUSE LEGAL ADVICE HAD SAID THERE WAS NO AGE LIMIT ON IT. BUT I THINK WHAT OUR MINUTES, SIR STATING IS THAT WE VOTED FOR 11 AND UNDER, BUT I, I THOUGHT SOMEWHERE IN THERE WE WERE WAITING FOR CITY COUNCIL TO HAVE A MEETING TO QUESTION WHETHER IT WAS GOING TO BE 18 OR UNDER OR NOT. WHAT DO WE DO ON THAT? YOU SAID WE CAN'T GO BACK AND CORRECT OR FIX THAT. THE ONLY THING HAS TO BE, CITY COUNCIL HAS TO BRING THAT UP FROM THERE. THAT'S CORRECT. THE, THE CITY COUNCIL HAS DELEGATED THE, THE ADMINISTRATION OF THIS PARTICULAR RECONSIDERATION POLICY TO THIS COMMITTEE. OKAY. AS A COMMITTEE, YOU HAVE CERTAIN AUTHORITIES TO MAKE YOUR OWN RULES AND PROCEDURES REGARDING THIS. UM, THE CHECK ON THAT IS IF YOU MAKE A RULE THAT COUNCIL DOESN'T LIKE, UM, THEY CAN ALWAYS COME BACK IN AND CLARIFY THE POLICY. OKAY. AT THIS POINT, THEY HAVE NOT DONE SO. OKAY. THEY [00:05:01] MAY DO SO IN THE FUTURE, BUT UNTIL WE HEAR OTHERWISE FROM THEM, WE ARE PROCEEDING AS THE COMMITTEE VOTED, WHICH IS REFLECTED IN THE MINUTES, I BELIEVE. OKAY. IT IS REFLECTED IN THE MINUTES. AND SO WE'RE GOING TO GO WITH 11 AND UNDER AS ACCORDING TO HOW WE VOTED. AND THE CITY HAS NOT CALLED IT FORWARD. GREAT. ALL RIGHT. SO CAN WE HAVE AN APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES PLEASE? I APPROVE THEM. I, I'VE ALREADY MOVED TO APPROVE. OKAY. OH, SO WE NEED A SECOND FOR, WELL, THAT'LL BE ME SECOND. ALRIGHT. SO THE MINUTES HAVE, UH, BEEN APPROVED. UM, THINK WHAT THE AUDIENCE IS ASKING FOR IS TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR BUTTON IS PUSHED GREEN AND THAT THE MICROPHONE IS CLOSE TO OUR MOUTH SO THAT THEY CAN ALL HEAR US. AT THIS TIME, I'D [3. PUBLIC COMMENT] LIKE TO CALL FOR PUBLIC COMMENT. IS THERE ANYBODY WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK? PLEASE STAND FORWARD OVER THERE. AND MICHELLE, IS THE MICROPHONE ALREADY ON FOR THAT? YES, MA'AM. THANK YOU. CAN YOU ADJUST IT? HELLO? CAN YOU HEAR ME? IT NEEDS TO BE LOUDER. LOUDER. SHOULD I TALK LOUDER? SHE CAN COME TO ONE OF THESE MICROPHONES. I DUNNO IF THEY HAVE THAT FUNCTION ON. SO I THINK WE'LL JUST, OKAY. I THINK I'LL, I'LL TALK LOUD, SO YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO HEAR ME. HELLO, MY NAME IS MARYANNE DELGADO AND I'M A RETIRED ELEMENTARY SCHOOL TEACHER. I'VE BEEN LIVING IN LEAGUE CITY FOR OVER 10 YEARS. I'VE BEEN IN TEXAS SINCE 2010. I'M HERE TO SPEAK ABOUT THE BOOK GRANDDAD'S PRIDE, EVEN THOUGH I FIND THIS ENTIRE PROCESS OUTRAGEOUS AND TO SPEAK ABOUT WHY I BELIEVE IT SHOULD NOT BE REMOVED FROM THE CHILDREN'S SECTIONS OF THE LIBRARY. I DO NOT THINK IT SHOULD BE BANNED. I DO THINK, AND I DON'T THINK THAT'S REALLY WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO. IS THAT CORRECT? YOU'RE JUST TRYING TO KEEP IT UNDER 11TH? YEAH. I THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE FOR CHILDREN ON ZERO 11. I DO THINK EVERY PARENT SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE BOOKS FOR THEIR OWN CHILD. MY FIRST INTRODUCTION TO GRANDAD'S BRIDE WAS FROM READING IT ONLINE. HOWEVER, IT WAS A LITTLE CONFUSING AS THE ILLUSTRATIONS VARIED FROM ONE VERSION TO THE NEXT. I DECIDED THEN TO LOOK AT THE BOOK HELEN HALL LIBRARY HAD ORDERED. ALTHOUGH THE BOOK WAS NOT CIRCULATING, I WAS ALLOWED TO SEE IT. BASICALLY THE BOOK IS ABOUT A GRIEVING GRANDDAD AND THE CHILDREN THAT CHEER HIM UP. AND I'M NOT SURE IF HIS PARTNER WAS HIS PARTNER OR HIS HUSBAND THAT HAD DIED, BUT HE WAS VERY SAD. GRANDDAD'S PRIDE IS A BOOK THAT PROMOTES EMPATHY, DIVERSITY, INCLUSIVENESS, AND TOLERANCE WITHIN A COMMUNITY. WHEN CHILDREN READ BOOKS THAT SHOW DIVERSITY, THEY BEGIN TO DISPLAY EMPATHY, THE UNDERSTANDING OF OTHERS, AND THEY ALSO GET A FEELING OF EMPOWERMENT. AN INCLUSIVE ENVIRONMENT IS AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE ONE CAN FEEL WELCOME AND ABLE TO CELEBRATE THEIR IDENTITY WITHOUT FEAR. THIS BOOK BRINGS TO LIFE A PLACE OF INCLUSION FOR ALL. HOW IS THAT HARMFUL TO A CHILD? WHAT IS HARMFUL ARE PEOPLE THAT WANT TO EXCLUDE, NOT INCLUDE CERTAIN GROUPS FROM THE COMMUNITY, SPECIFICALLY WANTING TO EXCLUDE THE L-G-B-T-Q COMMUNITY. NOW, SOME PEOPLE MAY LOOK AT THIS BOOK AND SEE SEXUALIZED CONTENT IN THE ILLUSTRATIONS. MY OPINION TWO MEN HUGGING IS NOT SEXUAL. IT'S CARING AS AN EDUCATOR. THE ONLY YOUNG CHILDREN I MET THAT DID HAVE SEXUAL THOUGHTS WERE CHILDREN THAT HAD BEEN SEXUALLY ABUSED THEMSELVES. THE BENEFIT OF BOOKS LIKE GRANDAD'S PRIDE REDUCES BULLYING, PROMOTES TOLERANCE AND FUELS ACCEPTANCE OF OTHERS. UNLIKE THEM, THEY ALSO HELP CHILDREN DEVELOP A POSITIVE SELF IMAGE. IT HAS ALSO BEEN FOUND THAT EVEN IN THE WORKPLACE AND AN INCLUSIVE ENVIRONMENT PROMOTES PRODUCTIVITY, THERE ARE LOWER TURNOVER RATES AND HIGHER EMPLOYEE SATISFACTION. [00:10:01] WHY NOT BEGIN WHEN CHILDREN ARE IN THEIR FORMATIVE YEARS TO PROMOTE TOLERANCE, DIVERSITY AND INCLUSIVENESS? WHAT A BETTER WORLD WE WOULD HAVE. WE JUST HAVE LIKE ONE LITTLE ANECDOTE TO SHARE WITH YOU AND, UM, IT'S A PERSONAL ANECDOTE. UM, MY DAUGHTER-IN-LAW HAS A BROTHER THAT IS GAY AND HAPPENS TO LIVE IN NEW YORK WITH HIS NOW HUSBAND. AND, UM, MY, MY DAUGHTER-IN-LAW'S, UM, BROTHER, UH, AND HIS PARTNER, HIS HIS THEN HIS PARTNER, UH, WOULD ALWAYS COME DOWN AND VISIT OR WE'D GO UP THERE AND SEE THEM. AND, UH, WE WERE VERY CLOSE TO THEM AND SO ARE MY GRANDCHILDREN. WELL, IN 2015, THEY WERE ALLOWED TO GET MARRIED AND UM, WE WERE ALLOWED TO WATCH IT ON ZOOM. WE HAD A ZOO. WE WATCHED THE WEDDING ON ZOOM. AND UM, MY GRANDDAUGHTER AT THAT TIME WAS ABOUT FIVE. SO AS MUCH AS SHE KNEW UNCLE JJ AND UNCLE, SHE CALLED THEM UNCLE LOBBY, UNCLE JJ AND UNCLE LOBBY, THEY WERE VERY CLOSE AND SHE KNEW THEM AS A COUPLE, BUT SHE DIDN'T UNDERSTAND NOW THEY WERE GETTING MARRIED. SO SHE SAID TO MY DAUGHTER-IN-LAW, WHAT TWO MEN GETTING MARRIED. AND MY DAUGHTER-IN-LAW VERY WISELY ANSWERED, YES, THEY LOVE EACH OTHER. AND SHE SAID, OH, OKAY. ENOUGH SAID. THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MARYANNE. IS THERE ANYONE ELSE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK? OKAY, I WASN'T. GOOD EVENING. UM, I'VE SPOKEN BEFORE MANY TIMES. I THINK YOU ALL KIND OF KNOW MY POSITION ON THE ENTIRE PROCESS, SO I'M NOT GONNA REPEAT MYSELF. UH, I'VE HAD A CHANCE TO GLANCE THROUGH THIS CHILDREN'S BOOK AND I'VE NOT SEEN ANYTHING THAT I WOULD CONSIDER TO BE OBSCENE. UH, THE, I THINK THE MESSAGES AS DESCRIBED HERE THAT ARE BEING TRANSMITTED THROUGH THAT BOOK, UH, EVEN IF YOU MAY NOT NECESSARILY TOTALLY AGREE WITH THE, UH, THE OVERALL CONTEXT, THE MESSAGE THEMSELVES CAN BE BENEFICIAL TO THOSE PEOPLE THAT ARE DIRECTLY RELATED TO THE TARGET AUDIENCE FOR THAT GROUP. SO, UH, I WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU ALL, HOPEFULLY BASED UPON YOUR REVIEW, YOU'VE COME TO THE SAME CONCLUSION I HAVE THAT THIS BOOK IS NOT OB SCENE, IT'S APPROPRIATELY LOCATED WHERE IT SHOULD BE IN THE LIBRARY AND THAT IT, UH, WOULD STAY WHERE IT IS CURRENTLY LOCATED. UM, ONE OF THE COMMENTS IS MORE RELATED TO THE OVERALL PROCESS IS I KNOW ON THE AGENDA TODAY'S DISCUSSION ON THE FORM, UM, THE RECONSIDERATION FORM. I WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU ALL IF YOU CAN, TO COME TO A DECISION TODAY AND GET THAT FORM FINALIZED SO THAT IT CAN BE POSTED ONLINE. UH, I KNOW THERE'S, UH, THERE MAY BE A, A DESIRE TO CREATE THE, THE PERFECT FORM, BUT YOU KNOW, PERFECT CAN GET IN THE WAY OF THE GOOD ENOUGH AND YOU CAN ALWAYS UPDATE AND CHANGE THE FORM GOING FORWARD IF YOU FIND NEEDS FOR IMPROVEMENT. AND IT'S NOW BEEN OVER A YEAR SINCE THIS COMMITTEE WAS CREATED, AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE MARCHING ORDERS WAS TO CREATE AN UPDATED FORM. SO I JUST ENCOURAGE YOU ALL TO, UH, PUT A PIN IN IT TO GET IT DONE. AND THEN IF WE NEED TO MAKE CHANGES LATER ON, WE ALWAYS CAN. SO THANK YOU ALL AGAIN FOR YOUR WORK IN REVIEWING THOSE BOOKS. HAVE A GOOD EVENING. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. WILLIAM. IS THERE ANYBODY ELSE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK? ONLY IF I'M LAST? YOU'RE LAST. OKAY. PEGGY SAYLOR 1802 RAMP PARK. YEAH, IT'S, THAT'S OKAY. YOU CAN HEAR ME OKAY? RIGHT. OKAY. GOOD. UM, FIRST OF ALL, I, I WANT TO SAY A SPECIAL THANK YOU, LIKE I DID LAST TIME. TO THE EXTENT THIS COMMITTEE CAN MAKE DECISIONS AND NOT GO FORWARD AND ASK COUNSEL FOR THEIR INTERPRETATION, I THINK THAT WOULD BE PRODUCTIVE. SO I APPRECIATE THE FACT THAT YOU DELIBERATED ALL THE OPTIONS THAT YOU AS A COMMITTEE DECIDED, UH, YOU WOULD TAKE WHAT YOU LISTENED TO, UNDERSTAND THE INTENT OF COUNSEL AND CHOSE 11 AND UNDER. SO I REALLY DO APPRECIATE THAT. A, AS I LOOK AROUND, I, I REALLY WISH ALL OF US WHO HAVE A GREAT INTEREST AND LOVE FOR OUR COMMUNITY, UH, WOULDN'T HAVE TO BE SPENDING OUR TIME HERE. WE COULD BE OUT IN THE COMMUNITY WORKING WITH PEOPLE, HELPING OUR COMMUNITY MOVE FORWARD, BUT WE ARE WHERE WE ARE. I READ THE BOOK. I ALSO, UH, LISTENED TO A COUPLE OF STORY TIMES ON, UH, YOUTUBE. IT'S VERY TOUCHING. AS A MATTER OF FACT, IF YOU WERE TO ASK ME, I DO NOT HAVE ANY CHILDREN, BUT IF YOU WERE TO ASK ME WHAT IS A MORE MEANINGFUL MESSAGE? IS IT WHAT I LISTEN TO ON YOUTUBE? THAT WAS NARRATE, [00:15:01] THAT WAS NARROW. OKAY. THE IT PEOPLE ARE TAKING CARE OF ME, MICHELLE. SO, UH, IF IT WAS THE, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LISTENING TO THE STORY TIME ON YOUTUBE FOR GRANDDAD'S PRIDE OR WATCHING THE, UM, THE ENTERTAINMENT AT THE SUPER BOWL, I WOULD KIND OF SAY I WOULD RATHER MY YOUNG PERSON FRIEND BE EXPOSED TO THE STORY TIME FOR THIS VERY LOVING WAY OF SAYING, WE'RE ALL DIFFERENT, BUT WE'RE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER. UM, SO, SO TO ME THAT RESONATED. LET'S TALK ABOUT THE, THE FORM. I AT THIS POINT, THERE'S ENOUGH DATA ACROSS THE COUNTRY THAT SAYS WHERE THERE IS AN ENERGY IN A COMMUNITY TO MAKE AN ISSUE ABOUT BOOKS. AND ESPECIALLY, UH, THE WAY LIBRARIES ARE, UM, ARE LIBRARIES WITH THE LIBRARIANS, WITH THE EXPERIENCE WHO HAVE THE TRAINING OR MAKING DECISIONS THAT AREN'T IN OUR BEST INTEREST. IT'S REALLY COMING FORWARD THAT THE NUCLEUS OF ALL THIS ENERGY IS JUST BY A FEW PEOPLE. IT, IT, IT'S NOT AN OVERWHELMING TURNOUT. SO I, I'M WONDERING, WHEN WE LOOK AT THE FORM AS, AS A TAX PAYING CITIZEN, IS IT UNREASONABLE FOR ME TO SAY, OKAY, IF WE'RE GONNA SPEND ALL THESE RESOURCES REVIEWING BOOKS, AND I, AND I WILL GIVE CREDIT THAT I HOPE THEY'RE ALL IN GOOD FAITH, THAT WE'RE ALL DETERMINING WHAT'S BEST FOR THE COMMUNITY, NOT FOR OURSELVES. I WOULD ASK, WHY WOULDN'T WE AT LEAST HAVE A DISCUSSION A A OPPOSED TO OPENING IT UP TO EVERY RESIDENT? WHY DON'T WE AT LEAST SAY IF YOU HAVE A LIBRARY CARD, BECAUSE I, I WILL TELL YOU WHAT THE EXPENSES THAT ARE INCURRED BY THIS EXERCISE, WE'RE GOING THROUGH THE RESOURCES THAT ARE BEING EXPENDED TO TRY TO DEAL WITH THIS. I WOULD LIKE TO THINK THAT PEOPLE WHO CARE ENOUGH ABOUT OUR COMMUNITY AND CARE ENOUGH ABOUT, ABOUT OUR LIBRARY TO TAKE ALL THIS TIME TO FILL OUT FORMS FOR VARIOUS BOOKS, TO GO THROUGH OUR LIBRARY, WALK THROUGH THE CHILDREN'S SECTION, DECIDE WHAT THEY THINK IS NOT RIGHT. I WOULD LIKE TO AT LEAST THINK THEY ARE COMMITTED ENOUGH TO OUR LIBRARY AND CARE ENOUGH OF OUR COMMUNITY TO HAVE A CARD. SO, SO OPENING IT UP TO ANY RESIDENT AND THEN MAKING IT AS EASY AS POSSIBLE. AND I KNOW THAT WAS THE MESSAGE FROM, FROM COUNSEL, WE WANNA MAKE THIS CONVENIENT, BUT YOU KNOW WHAT? THERE, THERE IS A RESPONSIBILITY THAT GOES WITH ANY CITIZEN CHOOSING TO MAKE AN ISSUE OF SOMETHING IN THE CITY THAT WE'RE GONNA TAKE VERY SERIOUSLY. AND IT'S AN EXAMPLE BY THIS. WE'RE IN THE CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS. I DUNNO WHETHER WE'RE STREAMING OR NOT, BUT, BUT WE, WE ARE SPENDING SOME TAXPAYER FUNDS TO DO THIS. SO, SO AS WE LOOK, WE'RE REPRESENTING OURSELVES, I I REALLY WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU AS A TAX PAYING CITIZEN, AS SOMEBODY WHO REALLY CARES. AND I THINK EACH OF YOU UNDERSTANDS THE ROLE, UH, OF A PUBLIC LIBRARY, NOT SOMEBODY'S INTERPRETATION OF THEY WANT A, WHAT A PUBLIC LIBRARY TO BE, BUT WHAT A PUBLIC LIBRARY IS BY LAW. AND, AND IF WE DON'T ABIDE BY THOSE RULES, WE'RE GONNA LOSE OUR ACCREDITATION AND WE COULD BE IN JEOPARDY OF, OF SOME FUNDING. SO, SO I SO APPRECIATE WHAT YOU, WHAT YOU'RE DOING, BUT I'LL TELL YOU WHAT, I'D FEEL A HECK OF A LOT MORE COMFORTABLE IF THERE ARE LIBRARIANS WHO WHO HAVE BEEN TRAINED FOR THIS WAS IN YOUR POSITION, BUT THEY'RE NOT. SO, SO PLEASE, PLEASE ALWAYS REMEMBER YOU'RE SPEAKING FOR THE CITIZENS, NOT FOR 10 OR 13. YOU'RE SPEAKING FOR ALL OF US AND WE LOVE OUR LIBRARY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, PEGGY. ARE THERE ANY OTHER, UM, PUBLIC COMMENTS? OKAY, HEARING NONE, WE WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC COMMENT SECTION NOW. UM, AND NOW WE'RE GOING TO MOVE ON TO OUR [4. DISCUSSION AND POTENTIAL ACTION TO ADOPT A LIBRARY MATERIALS RECONSIDERATION FORM] DISCUSSION AND POTENTIAL ACTION TO ADOPT LIBRARY MATERIALS FOR THE RECONSIDERATION FORM. DO WE HAVE ANY COMMENT REGARDING THIS? IF I MAY ADD? SO FROM THE LAST MEETING, I KNOW THERE WAS MENTION OF ADDING SOME LANGUAGE THAT SPOKE TO THE DEFINITION OF OBSCENE AND, AND HOW WE WOULD CLASSIFY THAT. AND SO WE USED THE EXAMPLE THAT WAS PROVIDED LAST MEETING, THE, IT WAS THE K-D-I-S-D APPLICATION THAT THEY HAVE AND TOOK THEIR QUESTION AND USED THE LANGUAGE THAT THEY USED AS KIND OF A GUIDING GUIDING POINT FOR THOSE QUESTIONS. UM, SO IT LOOKS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT THAN THE LAST ONE, UM, [00:20:01] BUT WE BELIEVE WE CAPTURED ALL OF THE REQUESTS FROM THE, FROM THE COMMITTEE. BUT LIKE I SAID, IF THERE'S ANY CHANGES, PLEASE LET US KNOW AND WE CAN KINDA WRAP THAT UP. THANK YOU FOR DOING THAT. IF YOU DON'T MIND, I'D LIKE TO GO FIRST. UM, I'M PREPARED TO SPEAK ON THE RECONSIDERATION FORM, AND THESE ARE A FEW THINGS, UH, LITTLE NOTES THAT I HAVE MIGHT NOT BE POPULAR, BUT, UM, I'M GOING TO AIR THEM OUT ANYWAY. NUMBER ONE I'D LIKE TO ADD, AND I NOTICED IT SAYS IT ON THE TOP, UM, AT THE TOP, FOR THOSE IN THE PUBLIC AUDIENCE THAT CAN'T SEE THIS FORM IN FRONT OF US, ANY RESIDENT OF LEAGUE CITY MAY REQUEST RECONSIDERATION OF ANY MATERIAL DEEMED APPROPRIATE FOR AGES 11 YEARS OLD OR YOUNGER. THAT'S WHAT THE TOP LINE SAYS, AND I'M GLAD TO SEE THAT. I WANTED TO ADD AT THE BOTTOM OF THE RECONSIDERATION FORM OR SOMEPLACE ON THIS FORM THAT THIS IS INTENDED FOR BOOKS AGES 11 AND UNDER HYEN PAGES. UM, BOOKS 12 PLUS WILL NOT BE REVIEWED BY THIS COMMITTEE. THE SECOND THING I'D LIKE TO PUT ON THIS RECONSIDERATION FORM IS THOSE WHO ARE SUBMITTING A RECONSIDERATION FORM MUST INCLUDE THEIR HELEN HALL LIBRARY CARD NUMBER. AND I WANNA EXPLAIN WHY. JUST LIKE PEGGY HAD SAID, I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THEY ARE ACTUALLY USING OUR LIBRARY. AND THIS IS JUST A VERIFICATION. IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO GO PUBLIC TO THE ENTIRE CITY, BUT IT IS A VERIFICATION THAT THEY ARE A LEAGUE CITY RESIDENT AND A HELEN HALL LIBRARY MEMBER. THE THIRD THING I WOULD LIKE TO ADD FOR THE RECONSIDERATION FORM IS THE PERSON WHO IS SUBMITTING THE RECONSIDERATION FORM MUST INCLUDE THEIR LEAGUE CITY ADDRESS FOR VERIFICATION PUR PURPOSES, AND ANY INCOMPLETE FORMS WILL NOT BE REVIEWED AND BE DISMISSED. AGAIN, THE REASON WHY, WELL, IF YOU LOOK AT HERE, IT SAYS TO KEEP, I PREFER TO KEEP MY ADDRESS PRIVATE. I PREFER TO KEEP MY NAME PRIVATE ON, ON PREVIOUS RECONSIDERATIONS THAT WE HAVE. I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THEY ARE A LEAGUE CITY RESIDENT. AND THIS IS FOR VERIFICATION PURPOSES. LET ME SAY THIS, YOU CANNOT COMPLAIN THAT KROGER HAS STALE BREAD IF YOU DON'T EVEN SHOP THERE. AND I'M, I'M ASKING FOR THE LIBRARY CARD NUMBER AND AN ADDRESS FOR VERIFICATION PURPOSES IS THE LAST THING I WOULD LIKE TO ADD IS THAT BOOKS MUST ACTUALLY BE SHELVED IN THE HELEN HALL LIBRARY FOR THEM TO BE REVIEWED AND CONSIDERED. IN OTHER WORDS, IN OTHER WORDS, YOU'RE ASKING THAT THEY BE A PHYSICAL BOOK, NOT AN EBOOK OR AUDIOBOOK. UM, I BELIEVE WE HAVE A COUPLE OF BOOKS THAT WE, THAT WERE IN THE RECONSIDERATION. PLEASE HELP ME WITH THIS, MEREDITH, JUST TO MAKE SURE I'M SAYING THIS RIGHT. I BELIEVE WE HAVE SOME THAT AREN'T PART OF THE EBOOK COLLECTION OR HELEN HALL LIBRARY. OF THE ONES THAT WERE SUBMITTED, UM, THAT YOU CONSIDERED AT THE LAST MEETING, THERE WAS ONE THAT IS NOT A PHYSICAL COPY. WE ONLY HAVE A COPY AVAILABLE AS AN EBOOK. THERE WAS ANOTHER THAT HAD BEEN IN OUR COLLECTION AS A PHYSICAL COPY, BUT HAD BEEN LOST SINCE, I WANNA SAY 2017. NOW, HERE, I'M GONNA SAY ONE LAST, BUT VERY UNPOPULAR, VERY UNPOPULAR OPINION. I WOULDN'T LIKE THIS FORM TO BE ONLINE. I FEEL LIKE THIS FORM IS VERY EASILY ABLE TO BE COPY AND PASTED FROM AN INTERNET REVIEW AND THEN PUT INTO THE RECONSIDERATION FORM AS A COPY PASTE AND NOT AN ORIGINAL THOUGHT. CAN I MAKE A COUPLE OF COMMENTS? TURN YOUR MIC ON. IS IT ON IT? IT IS ON. OKAY. IT IS ON, UM, A COUPLE OF COMMENTS. SURE, SURE. ONE IS, UH, I AGREE THAT THE BOOK HAS TO BE IN THE COLLECTION. HOWEVER, THE COLLECTION ALSO DOES INCLUDE THE, UH, UM, EBOOKS AND AUDIO AS WELL AS, UM, PUBLISHED HARD COPY BOOKS. THE OTHER THING IS I THINK PEOPLE NEED TO INCLUDE THEIR ADDRESS, BUT THAT DOES NOT NEED TO BE PUBLISHED, UM, TO THE PUBLIC RIGHT. VERIFICATION PURPOSES ONLY. RIGHT? RIGHT. AND SO IF PEOPLE VIEW THESE THINGS, UH, VIEW THE REQUESTS [00:25:02] THAT PRIVATE INFORMATION SHOULD NOT BE AVAILABLE TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC, BUT ONLY FOR INTERNAL USE TO VERIFY THAT THE PERSON, UH, SUBMITTING THIS IS A BORROWER, UH, IN THE LIBRARY. AND I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO INCLUDE, UM, OUT OF CITY, OUT OF COUNTY RESIDENTS WHO ARE PAYING FOR THE PRIVILEGE OF BORROWING BOOKS. UH, I DO AGREE WITH THE CONCEPT THAT IF THIS IS COMMUNITY STANDARDS, THE COMMUNITY, ARE THE PEOPLE BORROWING THE BOOKS AND ARE THE BORROWER, ARE THE PEOPLE USE THAT ACTUALLY USE HELEN HALL LIBRARY, THAT WE CAN'T HAVE RANDOM INDIVIDUALS SAY FROM AMARILLO FILING THESE THINGS? MM-HMM, . SO MICHELLE, DID YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO ADD THERE? YES, YES, I DID. I JUST WANNA MAKE THE COMMITTEE AWARE THAT WE DO WHATEVER POLICY THAT, THAT WE WANNA PASS REGARDING THE FORMS AND WHATEVER THE TALK WE HAVE ABOUT CONFIDENTIALITY, WE ARE BOUND BY THE PUBLIC INFORMATION ACT. SO IF WE ACTUALLY TAKE SOMEONE'S WRITTEN ADDRESS, SOMEONE ON A FORM, AND THERE'S A PIR FOR IT, THEY WILL GET THAT INFORMATION BECAUSE THERE IS NO EXCEPTION TO DISCLOSURE FOR THAT PARTICULAR INFORMATION. SO IF THERE'S ANOTHER WAY THAT WE CAN VERIFY ADDRESS THAT DOESN'T INCLUDE THEM ACTUALLY WRITING THEIR ADDRESS DOWN, I WOULD SUGGEST THE COMMITTEE CONSIDER THAT. BECAUSE IF THEY WRITE DOWN THE ADDRESS, WE CAN'T JUST DECIDE NOT TO GIVE IT OUT. WE DON'T HAVE THAT OPTION. SO IF THERE'S A WAY THAT WE CAN DO IT WITH MAYBE STAFF JUST LOOKING AT THEIR LIBRARY CARD AND VERIFYING, THAT'S FINE, BUT THEY CAN'T ACTUALLY WRITE THEIR ADDRESS ON THE FORM BECAUSE THEN IF SOMEONE REQUESTS IT, WE BY LAW HAVE TO GIVE THAT INFORMATION. JUST WANNA MAKE YOU AWARE OF THAT. THAT WOULD ALSO BE A REQUEST OF THE LIBRARY AS WELL. IN TERMS OF CONFIDENTIALITY. UM, LIBRARY RECORDS ARE, UM, BY STATE LAW OR SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD ONLY RELEASE, I BELIEVE, UM, WITH A SUBPOENA OR, UM, THAT, THAT'S ONE THING THAT THAT HAS BEEN INSTRUCTED BASED ON OUR PRIVACY IS THAT. BUT THE TEXAS STATE LIBRARY THAT, UM, LIBRARY RECORD. SO ANYTHING THAT WE OFFER, WE PREFER TO BE ANONYMOUS IN THAT REGARD. SO HAVING THEIR LIBRARY CARD AND THEIR NAME ASSOCIATED WOULD ALSO BE A CONCERN FROM THE LIBRARY SIDE. SO IF THERE'S A WAY FOR US TO VERIFY THAT INFORMATION, BUT TO ALSO MAKE IT NOT PUBLIC, NOT PUBLICLY, UM, WE'RE, WE'RE AVAILABLE. WE'RE, WE INTEND TO KEEP THIS NOT PUBLIC, BUT JUST I KEEP, WHAT IS SAYING IS THAT IF YOU ASK FOR IT ON THE FORM, THAT IT WOULD BE SUBJECT TO A PUBLIC INFORMATION REQUEST. SO IF THERE'S A WAY FOR US TO, YOU WOULD HAVE TO BASICALLY TRUST STAFF TO DO THAT VERIFY, BUT THE INFORMATION THAT WOULD BE SUBMITTED TO THE COMMITTEE, YOU WOULDN'T HAVE A WAY OF VERIFYING THAT. YOU WOULD JUST HAVE TO TRUST THAT STAFF WOULD VERIFY THAT ADMINISTRATIVELY. IF YOU'RE OKAY WITH THAT, WE CAN PROCEED WITH THAT. IF NOT, WE NEED TO DISCUSS DIFFERENT OPTIONS. SO THAT WOULD BE THROUGH THE LIBRARY CARD THAT WE WOULD DO THAT. NOT EVERYONE WHO IS A LEAGUE CITY RESIDENT THOUGH, WILL GET A LIBRARY CARD. SO THAT'S ANOTHER COMPLICATION. SO IT CAN'T JUST BE BASED ON A LIBRARY CARD. THERE'S GOTTA BE THE LIBRARY CARD AND THE STAFF HAS TO LOOK IT UP TO DETERMINE ARE THEY A LEAGUE CITY RESIDENT OR ARE THEY A FRIENDSWOOD OR A GALVESTON COUNTY RESIDENT. BUT WHAT ABOUT, WHAT ABOUT THOSE PEOPLE THAT ARE PAYING, UH, THAT FEE FOR, YOU KNOW, PRIVILEGES TO USE THE, THAT WOULD BE ANOTHER CONCERN. THAT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE A LEAGUE CITY RESIDENT, RIGHT? SO IF YOU WANNA CHECK THE RESIDENCY, THE WAYS WE WOULD DO THAT WOULD BE STAFF WOULD JUST INTERNALLY CHECK IT, THEN MAYBE THEY WOULD CHECK A BOX THAT SAID VERIFIED. BUT AGAIN, THAT WOULD BE THE EXTENT OF THE INFORMATION ON THE FORM. SO IF SOMEONE, A MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC WANTED TO SAY, HEY, WHERE DOES THIS PERSON LIVE? WHO SUBMITTED THIS REQUEST? ALL THEY WOULD SEE WOULD BE THEIR NAME AND A BOX CHECKED BY STAFF THAT SAID, WE VERIFIED THERE WOULD BE NO OTHER PHYSICAL DOCUMENTATION. I JUST FEEL LIKE THERE REALLY SHOULD BE, UM, A VERIFICATION THAT THEY ARE EITHER A LAKE CITY RESIDENT OR A MEMBER OF THE LAKE CITY LIBRARY, EITHER THROUGH, UH, A PAYMENT MEMBERSHIP, UM, THE, THE THAT CARD, THE, THE DIFFERENT CARD THAT IS COMING AVAILABLE OR THE HELEN HALL LIBRARY CARD. MM-HMM. THERE. IF YOU'RE NOT A, A MEMBER, UH, AND ABLE TO CHECK OUT BOOKS, THEN YOU SHOULDN'T BE COMPLAINING ABOUT THE BOOKS IN THE LIBRARY THAT YOU'RE NOT REALLY USING. ALL RIGHT. SO I'VE PUT OUT FOUR, FOUR THINGS, UH, THAT I'VE SAID. ONE WAS, I'D LIKE IT TO HAVE SOMETHING THAT SAYS THAT THE BOOKS 12 PLUS WILL NOT BE REVIEWED BY THIS COMMITTEE. DO I HAVE A SECOND ON THIS? CAN WE MAKE A MOTION? SECOND. UH, ALL IN FAVOR OF THAT MOTION PASSES. THE SECOND THING I HAD SAID WAS SOME TYPE OF, UM, VERIFY, [00:30:01] UH, UH, AND I SAID TWO THINGS. I SAID VERIFICATION OF ADDRESS AND THE LIBRARY CARD NUMBER. DO WE HAVE ANY DIS AND AND THEN I ALSO PUT ON THERE THAT, UH, ANY INCOMPLETE FORMS WILL NOT BE REVIEWED OR, AND WILL BE DISMISSED. DO WE HAVE ANY COMMENT ON THAT? I'M GOOD WITH THAT. I'LL MOVE THAT. WE ACCEPT THAT. OKAY. SO DO WE WANNA PUT BOTH THE LIBRARY CARD AND THE ADDRESS? HOW ABOUT, OR WELL, YEAH, ONE OR THE OTHER. WELL, IF YOU PUT THE ADDRESS ON IT, THEN IT WOULD BE NOT CONFIDENTIAL. SO MAYBE THE LIBRARY CARD AND THEN THEY CHECK THE ADDRESS. IS THAT, ISN'T THAT WHAT THEY SAID? IS THAT WHAT YOU SAID? YES, THAT IS, IF THAT'S WHAT THE COMMITTEE WANTS. IF, IF YOU DON'T CARE IF IT'S THE ADDRESSES OPEN TO PUBLIC DISSEMINATION, THEN YOU CAN KEEP IT ON THERE. BUT IF YOU KEEP IT ON THE FORM, YES, IT IS SUBJECT TO PUBLIC INFORMATION REQUEST. AND I'M UNAWARE OF ANY EXCEPTION TO DISCLOSURE. IF IT'S REQUESTED, I'M NOT TOO SURE. I UNDERSTAND THE NEED FOR IT TO BE CONFIDENTIAL. UH, WHEN I ADDRESS CITY COUNCIL, I HAVE TO STATE MY NAME AND MY ADDRESS. WHEN I COME IN FRONT OF CITY COUNCIL, I HAVE TO SPEAK AND I HAVE TO SAY JUST LIKE, LIKE EVERYONE ELSE, I HAVE TO SAY MY ADDRESS AND IT'S VERIFIED. UM, AND, AND THAT'S A WAY OF VERIFYING THAT YOU ARE A LEAGUE CITY COUNCIL OR A LEAGUE CITY RESIDENT. UM, I, I'M NOT TOO SURE. I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THE CONFIDENTIALITY OF THEIR ADDRESS. SO YOU BROUGHT IT UP. WHO, WHO WAS IT THAT BROUGHT UP THE CONFIDENTIALITY? MICHELLE, DOES IT HAVE TO BE CONFIDENTIAL? NO, IT DOESN'T, BUT IF YOU'RE WORRIED ABOUT IT AND YOU WANT IT AND YOU DO NOT WANT IT TO COME OUT, I JUST WANTED TO LET YOU KNOW THAT BY HAVING IT ON THERE, STAFF CAN'T MAKE THE OPTION AND, AND THERE'S NO RESOLUTION OR ORDINANCE THAT WE CAN PASS THAT'LL KEEP IT FROM DISCLOSURE. YEAH, IF YOU WANT IT ON THE FORM, IF IT DOESN'T, IF YOU DON'T CARE IF IT'S GONNA BE ON THERE, THEN KEEP IT ON THERE. I JUST WANTED TO LET YOU KNOW THAT WE CAN'T UNILATERALLY DECIDE TO KEEP CERTAIN THINGS CONFIDENTIAL. I WOULD LIKE IT TO BE THE LIBRARY CARD AND AN ADDRESS. DO YOU ME TO MAKE A MOTION FOR THAT? YES, PLEASE. MAY I MAKE A MOTION FOR THAT LIBRARY CARD AND THE ADDRESS BEYOND THE FORM? SECOND. SECOND. I'LL SECOND. OKAY. ALL IN FAVOR? AND IT PASSES. ALL RIGHT. UM, AND THEN WE ALSO, I I ALSO HAD BROUGHT UP THAT THE BOOKS MUST ACTUALLY BE SHELVED OR BE IN THE, JUST IN THE COLLECTION. IN THE COLLECTION. VERY GOOD. OF THE HELEN HALL LIBRARY TO BE REVIEWED. DO WE HAVE ANY CONVERSATION ABOUT THAT? I AGREE. I I AGREE. I MOVE. WE ACCEPT THAT. I SECOND. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. DOES ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANYTHING ELSE THAT THEY'D LIKE TO ADD, MARK? WELL, IT'S MORE LIKE SOMETHING I WOULD LIKE TO DELETE OR AMEND. I'D LIKE TO CHANGE QUESTION 14. FROM IN WHICH SECTION DID YOU LOCATE THIS MATERIAL WITHIN THE LIBRARY TO, DID YOU LOCATE THIS MATERIAL IN THE CHILDREN'S SECTION? BECAUSE THE ONLY THING WE ARE REVIEWING ARE BOOKS IN THE CHILDREN'S SECTION, AND THEREFORE IT'S IRRELEVANT WHETHER IT'S IN THE TEEN, ADULT PARENTING OR LOCAL HISTORY SECTION. FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE IN THE AUDIENCE, NUMBER 14, IN WHICH SECTION DID YOU LOCATE THIS MATERIAL? WITHIN THE LIBRARY? IT IS A, UH, MULTIPLE CHOICE, CHILDREN'S SECTION, TEEN SECTION, ADULT SECTION, PARENTING SECTION, LOCAL HISTORY SECTION, AND ONLINE COLLECTION. MODIFY THAT TO, DID YOU LOCATE THIS MATERIAL IN THE CHILDREN'S SECTION? YES OR NO? I CAN AGREE TO THAT. I'M, I MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THAT. I'LL SECOND. OH, YOU'D LIKE A DISCUSSION? WAIT A MINUTE. OKAY. SORRY, SORRY. IS THE PARENTING SECTION IN THE CHILDREN'S DEPARTMENT RIGHT NOW. THE PARENTING COLLECTION IS IN THE CHILDREN'S SECTION. YES, IT'S GONNA BE MOVING CLOSER TO THE CHILDREN'S SERVICES DESK, BUT IT WILL STILL BE IN THE CHILDREN'S COLLECTION. YEAH. OKAY. SO I THINK THEN ANY DISCUSSION THERE? THE POINT IS THAT CHILDREN CANNOT CHECK OUT BOOKS IN THE PARENTING SECTION. THE PARENTS DO. WE ARE AS, AS FAR AS I KNOW, OUR CHARTER IS TO LOOK AT THE CONTENTS OF THE BOOKS THAT THE CHILDREN HAVE ACCESS TO. AND MY, MY UNDERSTANDING AS A MEMBER OF THE LIBRARY BOARD [00:35:01] WAS THAT CHILDREN CANNOT CHECK OUT BOOKS THAT ARE IN THE PARENTING SECTION. IS THAT, AM I CORRECT ON THAT? THAT IS CORRECT. BY DEFAULT, THE CHILDREN CANNOT CHECK OUT THOSE MATERIALS IF PARENTS ALLOW THEM TO, THEY CAN, BUT NOT WITHOUT PARENTAL CONSENT. YES, BUT THEY CAN ACCESS THEM BECAUSE THAT SHELF OR THAT SECTION IS A, IT'S A SMALL BOOKSHELF THAT GOES TO THE FLOOR AND A CHILD COULD EASILY GET IT. THEN LET'S AMEND IT TO, DID YOU, UH, LOCATE THE MATERIAL IN THE CHILDREN'S SECTION OR PARENTING SECTION? OKAY, I'M GOOD WITH THAT. I CAN AGREE TO THAT. I MOVE TO APPROVE THAT. DO WE HAVE A SECOND? SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR? GOOD. MOTION PASSES. ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANYTHING ELSE THAT THEY'D LIKE TO ADD? I, I JUST HAVE A QUESTION. I HAVE, I HAVE ONE QUESTION ABOUT 19. OKAY. THAT'S WHERE MINE IS THIS AS AS IT, IT ASKS IF A BOOK IS HARMFUL MATERIAL AND, AND THAT IS ESSENTIALLY OBSCENE MATERIAL, AND I DON'T THINK WE'RE ALLOWED TO HAVE THAT IN THE LIBRARY ANYWAY, SO I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE RELEVANCE OF THAT QUESTION IS. AS FAR AS I KNOW, THE CHARTER OF THIS COMMITTEE IS TO REVIEW BOOKS IN THE CHILDREN'S SECTION TO SEE IF THEY ARE APPROPRIATE FOR CHILDREN NOT TO PASS ON WHETHER OR NOT THEY ARE OBSCENE. SO WHY ARE WE ASKING THAT QUESTION? BECAUSE IF, IF, IF IT REALLY IS, UM, BASED ON, ON WHAT IS, UH, THE DEFINITION THAT YOU NEED TO ANSWER, YES, WE SHOULDN'T BE HAVING THOSE BOOKS IN THE LIBRARY IN THE FIRST PLACE. UM, SO BECAUSE WE'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO HAVE MACHINE MATERIAL IN THE LIBRARY, MICHELLE, DID YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO ADD? YES. UM, THIS, UH, PARTICULAR FORM AND TEMPLATE AND ALL THE REASONS THAT ARE ALL THE THINGS ARE ON HERE. UM, WE HAD DISCUSSED THIS AT THE PREVIOUS MEETING AND, UM, IT'S ACTUALLY FROM THE K-D-I-S-D, UM, LIBRARY RECONSIDERATION FORM. SEVERAL OF THE COMMITTEE MEMBERS MENTIONED THAT THEY LIKED A LOT OF THE DEFINITIONS THERE. I KNOW THERE WAS SOME DEBATE ON THE COMMITTEE ON WHICH ONES WOULD BE APPROPRIATE IF YOU WANTED TO HAVE A DEFINITION OF OBSCENITY, IF YOU WANTED TO HAVE A DEFINITION OF HARMFUL. UM, WE JUST WANTED TO BRING THE FORM BACK TO THE COMMITTEE SO THAT YOU COULD SEE WHAT IT LOOKED LIKE. CERTAINLY IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, YOU'RE FREE TO AMEND THE FORM AS YOU WANT. BUT THE REASON WHY IT'S IN THERE IS WE FRANKLY JUST COPIED IT FROM K-D-I-S-D. OKAY. I THINK IT, IT HELPS, I MEAN IT, THE DEFINITION OF HARMFUL AND HARMFUL MATERIAL, IT GIVES A, A MORE CLEAR LOOK AT IT, BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT HAVE DIFFERENT DEFINITIONS AND FEELINGS OF IT. UM, I DON'T SEE ANY NEED IN HAVING TO TAKE IT OUT. I, I FEEL IT SHOULD STAY BECAUSE THAT MAY BE WHAT SOMEBODY'S LOOKING AT TO, YOU KNOW, FOR US TO REVIEW OR RECONSIDER. I GUESS I PERSONALLY LIKE THE DEFINITION, SO IT'S A LITTLE MORE CLEAR OF WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY ON THEIR, UH, FORM. WELL, IS MY QUESTION WITH THIS IS, IS THIS THE THREE-PRONGED MILLER TEST RIGHT. THING THAT'S BEEN PASSED BY THE US SUPREME COURT? UM, NO MA'AM. IT'S NOT. THE THING IS, WITH THAT, FOR THIS TO BE TRUE, IT HAS TO BE TAKE ALL THREE ITEMS, A, B, AND C NEED TO BE PRESENT. LIKE, YOU CAN'T JUST SAY, WELL, A, BUT NOT B OR C. THE THREE-PRONGED TEST IS ALL THREE ITEMS AND IT HAS TO BE TAKEN AS A, AS A WHOLE FOR IN OUR CASE BOOKS. SO, UM, IN RESPONSE TO THAT, THE MILLER CASE IS A FUNCTION OF CASE LAW. IT'S A JUDICIAL LEGAL STANDARD THAT HAS BEEN APPLIED IN DIFFERENT JURISDICTIONS. IT'S USUALLY AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL. THESE PARTICULAR DEFINITIONS, [00:40:01] UM, CERTAINLY ARE RELATED TO IT, BUT THEY'RE ACTUALLY PULLED DIRECTLY FROM STATUTE RELATED TO KIND OF MATERIALS AND SO FORTH. SO STRICTLY SPEAKING, THIS ISN'T EXACTLY THE SAME STANDARD THAT YOU SEE IN CASE LAW. WHEN YOU READ SOME OF LIKE THE, THE JUDICIAL HOLDINGS WHEN THEY OPINE ON WHAT IS OB, WHAT IS OBSCENITY AND WHAT IS NOT. THIS IS REALLY JUST A STATUTORY DEFINITION THAT WAS PUT IN THERE BY THE LEGISLATURE. CERTAINLY THEY'RE INFORMED BY THE MILLER TEST, BUT IT'S A LITTLE SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT ANALYSIS BECAUSE ONE IS DONE BY A COURT OF LAW AND ONE IS JUST, UM, A DEFINITION THAT'S BEEN PUT IN THERE AND PLACED BY THE LEGISLATURE. AND LIKE I SAID, IN VARIOUS CODES, THIS ONE, THE ONE FOR OBSCENITY HAPPENS TO BE THE PENAL CODE. MM-HMM. . THERE'S OTHERS LIKE HARMFUL AND SO FORTH THAT ARE FOUND IN, IN THE EDUCATION CODE AS WELL. MM-HMM. . AND SO THERE'S JUST DIFFERENT DEFINITIONS THAT THIS PARTICULAR JURISDICTION, K-D-I-S-D OPTED TO INCLUDE IN THERE JUST BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO BE ABLE TO POINT TO AN EXACT DEFINITION AND IT WAS CERTAINLY EASIER TO DO SO WHEN IT'S A STATUTE AS OPPOSED TO A CASE LAW WHERE IT'S KIND OF NEBULOUS WORDING. OKAY. WOW. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? NO, I'M GOING TO MOVE THAT WE APPROVE THIS FORM AS WE'VE AMENDED IT. I SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR? ALRIGHT, GOOD. THANK YOU. UM, ONE THING THAT I HAD BROUGHT UP WAS THE UNPOPULAR, UM, AND I JUST WANTED TO BRING IT UP AND, AND JUST KIND OF FEEL AND SEE WHAT YOU GUYS THOUGHT ABOUT THIS, THE UNPOPULAR OPINION. UM, HOW DO WE FEEL ABOUT THIS FORM BEING ONLINE AND, UM, TURNED IN ONLINE VERSUS A PAPER FORM ONLY? UM, AND, AND THE, THE REASON FOR THAT IS MY CONCERN THAT SOMETIMES IT FEELS LIKE PERHAPS MAYBE THEY'RE COPIED AND PASTED REVIEWS FROM ELSEWHERE ON GOOGLE AND NOT AN AUTHENTIC, UM, REQUEST FROM THE READER. YOU CAN DO THAT'S WITH A PAPER FORM TOO. THAT'S TRUE. THAT'S TRUE, JOAN. BUT THINK ABOUT IF IT'S ONLINE AND EVERYONE OUT THERE IS VIEWING THAT I WOULD BE CONCERNED ABOUT CONFIDENTIALITY FOR THEIR ADDRESS ON THAT PART IF IT WAS ONLINE. BUT, UM, I SAY ONLINE OR PAPER IS FINE. YES, BECAUSE IT'S, AS I SAID, YOU CAN CUT AND PASTE THE PAPER FORM AS WELL. I'M NOT WRITING A FORM OUT LONGHAND. IF I AM PRINTING OUT A FORM, SAY AN ADOBE FORM, I TYPE IT ON MY COMPUTER AND THEN PRINT IT, WHICH MEANS THAT THERE IS IN ESSENCE NO DIFFERENCE THAN, YOU KNOW, SIMPLY CUTTING AND PASTING FROM A REVIEW OR A FORM LETTER. I MEAN, THESE CAN, THAT CAN BE FILTERED OUT IN THE FIRST PASS WHEN WE, WHEN, WHEN THESE, THE SUBMISSIONS ARE REVIEWED. OKAY. WASN'T THERE A DISCUSSION, UH, SOMEWHERE I READ ABOUT IF IT'S ONLINE THAT THE SECRETARY HAS A EASIER ROUTE TO, UM, CORRECT. UM, USING MICROSOFT FORMS, WHICH IS WHAT WE WOULD USE WHEN IT'S SUBMITTED, WE AS STAFF ARE ABLE TO, IT IS ABLE TO BASICALLY DIRECT THAT FORM IMMEDIATELY TO THE CITY SECRETARY'S OFFICE, THE CITY LIBRARIAN, CITY ATTORNEY, UH, CITY MANAGER'S OFFICE, WHICH IS A REQUIREMENT OF THE APPLICATION. I WOULD SAY THAT IF WE WERE TO HAVE SOME SORT OF PHYSICAL OR PAPER COPY, THAT THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE TURNED INTO THE CITY SECRETARY'S OFFICE TO BE RECORDED SO THAT IT CAN BE PROPERLY NOTED OF WHEN IT WAS RECEIVED. BECAUSE WHAT WE DON'T WANNA RUN INTO IS SAY SOMEONE BRINGS IT TO THE LIBRARY AND A STAFF PERSON JUST TAKES IT, YOU KNOW, THEY MAY NOT BE, UM, AWARE OF THE PROCESS THAT IS REQUIRED OR IT GETS SHUFFLED INTO SOME PAPERS. SO WE'D LIKE TO HAVE A PROCESS IN WHICH THEY HAD TO BRING IT TO THE CITY SECRETARY'S OFFICE FOR THEM TO STAMP AND ACTUALLY RECORD THE TIME IT WAS RECEIVED. OKAY. OKAY. SO WE HAVE APPROVED THE, THE CHANGES FOR THE RECONSIDERATION FORM AND, UM, CAN WE EXPECT TO HAVE THOSE ONLINE, UH, BY A PARTICULAR DATE? UM, I WOULD HAVE TO WORK WITH IT ON THE, THE, THE AUTOMATION PIECE, BUT I THINK WE COULD AT LEAST GET IT GOING RATHER QUICKLY IN TERMS OF THE AUTOMATION. WE MAY HAVE TO DO THAT, UH, MANUALLY FOR A LITTLE BIT, BUT I THINK IT SHOULDN'T BE TOO HARD TO, TO GET GOING. WHAT KIND OF ANTICIPATE AN ANTICIPATED DATE? DO YOU THINK WE COULD HAVE THIS UP AND READY TO GO BY? COULD WE SAY, UH, MAY 1ST, CAN WE SAY MAY 15TH OR MARCH? I'M SORRY, MARCH 1ST? MARCH 15TH. MAY SURE, YEAH, WE [00:45:01] CAN KNOCK THAT. NO, NO, NO. UM, YEAH, I WOULD SAY, UM, THE MARCH 15TH WOULD BE PLENTY OF TIME FOR US TO GET THAT GOING. OKAY. AND IF THE, IF THE IT EXPRESSES ANY CONCERN, I'LL MAKE SURE TO REPORT THAT TO THE COMMITTEE SO YOU'RE AT LEAST AWARE OF WHY WE CAN'T MAKE THAT DEADLINE. I DON'T WANNA SPEAK FOR OUR IT DIRECTOR, BUT GIVEN MICROSOFT FORMS AND IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE KIND OF A EASY PROCESS, I'M GONNA SAY THAT THE 15TH SHOULD BE DOABLE. OKAY. THANK YOU. ALL [5. DISCUSSION CONCERNING REVIEW OF ADULT LIBRARY MATERIAL] RIGHT. NUMBER FIVE ON OUR AGENDA IS THE DISCUSSION AND CONS, UH, CONCERNING REVIEW OF ADULT LIBRARY MATERIAL. WE DON'T HAVE ANY ADULT LIBRARY MATERIAL TO REVIEW AT THIS TIME. OKAY. IS THAT CORRECT? OKAY, GOOD. WE, WE NOT ONLY DO NOT HAVE ANY, IT IS OUTSIDE THE SCOPE OF THIS COMMITTEE. THAT'S RIGHT. I THINK IF WE STATE THAT, THAT CLOSES THE CLOSE ITEM FIVE. ALL RIGHT. ITEM SIX, [6. PUBLIC HEARING REGARDING REQUEST FOR RECONSIDERATION FILED DECEMBER 20. 2023 REGARDING "GRANDAD'S PRIDE" BY HARRY WOODGATE] PUBLIC HEARING REGARDING REQUESTS FOR RECONSIDERATION FILED DECEMBER 22ND, 2023. REGARDING GRANDDAD'S PRIDE BY HARRY WOODGATE. WE'RE GOING TO OPEN A PUBLIC HEARING. DOES ANYONE HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY ABOUT GRANDDAD'S PRIDE? I WAS TRYING TO THINK OUT HOW WELL THAT'S WHAT THE PUBLIC COMMENT WAS. I THINK THIS SECTION IS WHEN WE AMONG THE COMMITTEE MEMBERS DISCUSS WHETHER OR NOT THIS BOOK. YES. SO THIS SAYS AS BELONGS IN THE CHILDREN'S SECTION. GO AHEAD, MICHELLE. THIS IS THE PUBLIC HEARING WE'RE THE WE FOR ARE THE ONES PROVIDING THE PUBLIC HEARING AND THE AUDIENCES LISTENING TO US DISCUSS. UH, WE'VE ALREADY HAD INPUT FROM THE PUBLIC, IS THE WAY WE'VE DONE THE COMMENT. YES. AT THE, THE BEGINNING OF THE, UH, AGENDA, IT'S POSTED FOR PUBLIC COMMENT. PUBLIC COMMENT IS A WIDE RANGE OF TOPICS. ANYTHING OF CONCERN TO THE COMMITTEE. THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING. UM, I WOULD SUGGEST THAT WE OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING TO STATE THE MEETING THAT IT'S OPEN, INVITE THEM TO SPEAK SPECIFICALLY ON THIS PARTICULAR BOOK THAT IS WHAT THIS IS MEANT FOR. AT THE CONCLUSION OF THOSE, I WOULD THEN HAVE THE PERSON ACTING AS THE CHAIR TO NOTE WHEN THE PUBLIC HEARING IS CLOSED. AT THAT POINT, THE COMMITTEE IS FREE TO HAVE DELIBERATIONS. CERTAINLY YOU CAN ASK OPINIONS FROM ANY FROM, FROM STAFF. IF YOU WANNA HEAR ANYTHING FURTHER, THE CHAIR CERTAINLY HAS DISCRETION TO INVITE ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN WHO COULD OFFER RELEVANT TESTIMONY ABOUT THE PARTICULAR BOOK? BUT YES, AS A PUBLIC HEARING, THERE'S A PUBLIC COMMENT AND A PUBLIC HEARING. YOU DO NEED TO OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING FOR PEOPLE TO SPEAK SPECIFICALLY ON THE BOOK. ALL RIGHT. AT THIS TIME I'D LIKE TO, IT'S SIX 20. I'D LIKE TO OPEN FOR PUBLIC HEARING FOR THE BOOK SPECIFICALLY GRANDDAD'S PRIDE BY HARRY WOODGATE. NO, YOU'RE BETTER THAN ME. GO AHEAD. NO, NO, I'M NOT. I JUST WANTED TO SAY, I'M NOT SAYING THE WHOLE . THAT'S OKAY. , I JUST WANTED TO SAY FOR THE PUBLIC HEARING, WHATEVER THIS IS, UM, WHAT I SAID BEFORE IN THE PUBLIC COMMENTS OR WHATEVER WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS WHAT I WOULD LIKE. I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THAT GRANDDAD'S PRIDE, I BELIEVE SHOULD REMAIN WHERE IT IS IN THE CHILDREN'S SECTION AND BE AVAILABLE TO ANY CHILD THAT NEEDS TO READ IT. WOULD LIKE TO READ IT. IT'S A WONDERFUL, WONDERFUL BOOK. THAT'S IT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, PEGGY. PEGGY SAILOR 1802 RAMPART. I LOVE TO SAY THAT. UM, I AM SO PLEASED THAT YOU AS A COMMITTEE AND, AND DRE THANK YOU. I THINK YOU HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH PROBABLY YOU TOO, MICHELLE, IS THAT YOU'RE MAKING A DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE PUBLIC COMMENTS AND PUBLIC HEARING, BECAUSE IN PREVIOUS MEETINGS, UM, THAT'S ALWAYS BEEN MY CHALLENGE, IS HOW MANY THINGS I WANTED TO TRY TO COVER WHEN ACTUALLY I THOUGHT, UH, AS YOU WERE DELIBERATING THE AGENDA ITEM, UH, TO REVIEW A SPECIFIC BOOK THAT REALLY LENT ITSELF JUST LIKE WE DO IN CITY COUNCIL TO A PUBLIC HEARING. SO THANK YOU FOR THAT FORMAT. I BELIEVE THAT TAKEN IN THE ENTIRE CONTEXT OF THE MESSAGING, THE WAY IT'S PRESENTED, I CANNOT IMAGINE FROM A PUBLIC LIBRARY PERSPECTIVE THAT WE WOULD WANNA SAY AS CITIZENS OF LAKE CITY, THAT WE THINK IT'S INAPPROPRIATE TO HAVE THIS BOOK IN OUR LIBRARY. I CAN'T IMAGINE THAT BECAUSE IT'S LIKE MS. DE DELGADO, UH, SAID IT, IT REALLY IS WRAPPED [00:50:01] IN A THEME OF ACCEPTANCE, OF UNDERSTANDING. AND I THINK THAT IS REALLY WHAT WE WANNA TRY TO COMMUNICATE TO, TO OUR CITIZENS IS HOWEVER YOU INTERPRET THAT INCLUSIVENESS. THERE, THERE IS A PLACE FOR YOU IN OUR PUBLIC LIBRARY, AND I THINK OUR STAFF DOES AN EXCELLENT JOB EVERY DAY AS THEY'RE INTERFACING WITH DIFFERENT CITIZENS WHO COME IN TO OUR LIBRARY WITH DIFFERENT OBJECTIVES TO MAKE THEM FEEL WELCOME. AND EVERY TIME WE HAVE A SURVEY, I WILL SAY OUR LIBRARY IS TYPICALLY THE DEPARTMENT THAT WILL RECEIVE THE MOST RESPONSIVES AND TYPICALLY THE HIGHEST. AND THERE'S A REASON FOR THAT. AND WE'VE WORKED VERY, VERY HARD WITH THE STAFF'S LEADERSHIP TO HAVE THAT MESSAGING. SO I THINK WE HAVE, UH, AN OPPORTUNITY AS MUCH AS I'D LIKE TO SEE US NOT BE HERE TO CONTINUE TO MESSAGE THAT TO OUR CITIZENS, THIS BOOK IS OFFERING AN OPPORTUNITY TO, TO THOSE WHO PROBABLY MIGHT FIND IT AN UNCOMFORTABLE DISCUSSION, I HAVE NO IDEA, BUT I REALLY WANT TO KNOW THAT OUR TAXPAYER DOLLARS ARE BEING UTILIZED IN OUR LIBRARY FOR ALL OF OUR CITIZENS, NOT SOME OF OUR CITIZENS. I DON'T WANT SOMEBODY MAKING A JUDGMENT ON ME. I'LL MAKE A JUDGMENT FOR MYSELF. AND I REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR DELIBERATIONS, AND MAY I SAY EVERYTHING THAT YOU DISCUSSED LEADING UP TO THIS AS A CITIZEN, I WANT YOU TO KNOW HOW MUCH I APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANYTHING ELSE TO ADD? HEARING? OH, , HEARING NONE. IT IS 6 25 AND I'M GONNA CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AT THIS TIME. ALRIGHT. AT [7. CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION ON REQUEST FOR RECONSIDERATION FILED DECEMBER 20. 2023 REGARDING "GRANDAD'S PRIDE" BY HARRY WOODGATE] THIS TIME, CAN WE HAVE, UM, UH, A CONVERSATION ABOUT THIS BOOK, UH, GRANDDAD'S PRIDE? AND WHO WOULD LIKE TO GO FIRST HERE? YEAH. UM, I'VE READ THE BOOK AND I HAVE A REALLY SIMPLE QUESTION. HOW MANY OF YOU THINK IT IS APPROPRIATE, UH, TO EXPOSE CHILDREN UNDER 11 TO S AND M OR BONDAGE IMAGES OF BONDAGE AND MASOCHISM? THAT'S, I I AGREE. UH, IS THAT APPROPRIATE? I DON'T, REGARDLESS, I'M NOT ARGUING THE CONTENT OF THE BOOK. I'M ASKING A QUESTION. IS IT APPROPRIATE FOR A CHILDREN'S BOOK TO HAVE IMAGES, UH, INVOLVING SADOMASOCHISM, UH, AND BONDAGE? I DON'T THINK THAT CHILDREN SEE WHAT, EXCUSE ME. I DIDN'T HEAR. YOU DIDN'T HEAR ME? WHAT DID YOU SAY? I SAID, I DON'T THINK CHILDREN SEE THOSE. I'M GONNA CALL THEM OUTFITS IN THAT WAY. A CHILD WOULD SEE THAT AS DRESS UP CLOTHES. THEY DON'T SEE IT AS BONDAGE AND SADOMASOCHISM. THEY'RE, THEY DON'T FOCUS ON THAT. SO YOU'RE SAYING THAT THOSE IMAGES ARE OKAY IN A CHILDREN'S BOOK? I DID NOT SAY THAT. I SAID A CHILD WOULD NOT SEE THEM AS WE SEE THEM AS ADULTS. BUT THEN IF THAT IS YOUR CONCLUSION, YOU ARE SAYING IT IS OKAY, YOU'RE PUTTING AN ADULT SPIN ON IT. AND I DON'T THINK A CHILD SEES IT THAT WAY. IF A CHILD GOES TO A GAY PRIDE, THEY'RE GOING TO SEE THAT AND A LOT MORE. UM, AND I'LL AGREE WITH THAT. AND IF PARENTS WISH TO TAKE THEM TO THAT, THAT IS THE PARENT'S CHOICE, UH, THAT WOULD NOT BE A DECISION THAT MY CHILDREN WOULD MAKE FOR THEIR YOUNG CHILDREN. UM, I'M NOT ASKING WHETHER PARENTS SHOULD MAKE THAT DECISION FOR THEIR CHILDREN. WHAT I AM ASKING IS, ARE THOSE IMAGES APPROPRIATE IN A BOOK FOR CHILDREN UNDER 11? I THINK MARK, WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS ONCE THEY SEE IT, THEN THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE QUESTIONS AND THEN IT'S UP TO THE PARENT TO HAVE TO BRING THAT CONVERSATION [00:55:01] TO THE TABLE. AND IN MY OPINION, I FEEL LIKE, YOU KNOW, I KNOW WE'RE NOT BANDING BOOKS AND STUFF, BUT THIS PARTICULAR BOOK I FEEL NEEDS TO BE IN. I THINK MEREDITH, YOU SAID IT WAS A CALLED PARENT CHOICE, BUT PARENT CHOICE IS RIGHT OUT ON THE CORNER WHERE ALL KIDS CAN GET IT OR, OR VIEW IT. IS THERE, YOU SAID THERE WAS A PLACE WE COULD MOVE IT TO THAT WOULD BE MORE ADULT. SO IT'S NOT A PARENT CHOICE COLLECTION? IT IS A PARENTING COLLECTION. OKAY. SO MOST OF THE MATERIALS IN THAT COLLECTION ARE NOT FOR ADULT DIRECTED READING FOR CHILDREN. THEY'RE, UM, INSTRUCTIONAL THINGS LIKE BABY LED WEANING AND, UM, YOU KNOW, SLEEP TRAINING AND THAT KIND OF THING. SO ALTHOUGH YOU COULD CERTAINLY MAKE THE CHOICE, I MEAN, THAT'S THE PREROGATIVE OF THE COMMITTEE TO MOVE A TITLE. UM, WE ARE GONNA BE MOVING THE COLLECTION FROM ONE PART OF THE CHILDREN'S SECTION TO ANOTHER PART. MM-HMM. . SO RIGHT NOW IT IS RIGHT NEXT TO, UM, THE PLAY AREA. INITIALLY THAT COLLECTION WAS PURCHASED, HELPED WITH GRANT FUNDS FROM A FAMILY PLACE GRANT. SO IT WAS MEANT TO BE BY THAT PLAY AREA, BUT WE CAN CERTAINLY MOVE IT. THE DISCUSSION HAS BEEN TO MOVE THAT COLLECTION CLOSER TO THE CHILDREN'S SERVICES DESK, WHICH IS BY STAFF. AND MY NEXT CONCERN IS, IS THERE A SHELF THAT WE COULD GET IT HIGH ENOUGH TO OUT OF REACH OF THE LITTLE CHILDREN THAT PARENTS COULD REACH IT. BUT I MEAN, IT'S STILL AVAILABLE TO EVERYONE. AND I UNDERSTAND THAT SOME OF YOU, YOU KNOW, HAVE MADE THE REMARKS IN THE PAST THAT THERE ARE NO BOOKS THAT YOU, THEY COULD FIND TO TELL THEM ABOUT THEMSELF, WHAT WAS HAPPENING TO THEIR BODY. AND I UNDERSTAND THAT, AND THAT IT WILL STILL BE AVAILABLE, BUT IT WOULD BE MORE OF A PARENT PICK. YEAH. IF THAT PARENT FEELS THAT CHILD NEEDS THAT BOOK AND NEEDS TO UNDERSTAND AND HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT THESE KINDS OF THINGS. YOU KNOW, I JUST FEEL IT'S MORE APPROPRIATE FOR THE PARENTING SECTION. I'M NOT SAYING REMOVE IT FROM THE LIBRARY. EXACTLY. EXACTLY. I'LL POINT OUT THAT THE LIBRARY HAS MANY BOOKS THAT MM-HMM. DISCUSS THAT INCLUDING SOME VERY POPULAR SCIENCE FICTION. MM-HMM. . UM, BUT AGAIN, THOSE ARE IN THE ADULT SECTION. AND MY FEELING IS THAT, YOU KNOW, I, THE IT'S NOT THE CONTENT OR THERE'S A SUBJECT MATTER OF THE BOOK THAT DISTURBS ME OR MAKES ME FEEL MM-HMM. , IT'S INAPPROPRIATE TO BE IN THE CHILDREN'S SECTION. IT'S THE IMAGES THAT THEY CHOSE TO INCLUDE IN THE BOOK. I AGREE. I'M NOT SAYING THE BOOK IS OBSCENE. MM-HMM. , I'M JUST SAYING THAT THAT'S NOT A BOOK THAT I FEEL IS APPROPRIATE FOR UNFETTERED ACCESS TO CHILDREN. AND ESPECIALLY SINCE IT IS IT AS, AS SOMEBODY POINTED OUT, THIS IS A BOOK THAT PARENTS ARE GOING TO BE READING TO THEIR CHILDREN. SO HAVING IT IN THE PARENTING SECTION RATHER THAN THE CHILDREN'S SECTION KIND OF UNDERSCORES THE FACT THAT IT WILL BE READ UNDER ADULT SUPERVISION. AND MOST OF THE TIME WHEN YOU'RE READING THAT, THE KIDS ARE LOOKING AT THE PICTURES IN DISCUSSION OF THIS BOOK, I'D LIKE TO SAY, UM, GRANDDAD'S PRIDE IS, IS QUITE AN INTERESTING BOOK BECAUSE IT IS VERY INCLUSIVE. FIRST OF ALL, IT IS A CHILD WHO IS OBVIOUSLY COMING FROM A BIRACIAL FAMILY AND COMES ACROSS THE RAINBOW FLAG IN THE ATTIC AND DECIDES TO MAKE IT, MAKE IT PART OF THEIR PIRATE SHIP. THE COMPLAINT ON THE, ON THE RECONSIDERATION FORM SAYS THAT THIS IS A TRANS FLAG. THIS IS NOT A TRANS FLAG. A TRANS FLAG IS BLUE AND PINK. IT'S NOT A RAINBOW FLAG. AND THE L-G-T-B-Q FLAG, I BELIEVE HAS, HAS A TRIANGLE ON IT. UH, SO THIS, THIS IS JUST PURELY A RAINBOW FLAG. UH, THE SECOND THING I WANTED TO SAY IS THAT IT WAS REALLY COOL HOW THEY EXPLAINED, UM, GRANDDAD'S PRIDE AND THAT IT WAS A GIANT PARTY WHERE WE CELEBRATE WONDERFUL DIVERSITY OF OUR COMMUNITIES. AND SO THERE WAS NO REAL MENTION OF BEING GAY IN THIS BOOK. I REALLY LIKED HOW, UM, THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT THE DRAG SHOW AND RIGHT THERE ON THE NEXT PAGE WAS PEOPLE WERE WEARING COSTUMES FOR THE PARADE. AND I BELIEVE THAT'S WHERE THE OUTFIT THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT YES. IS [01:00:01] COMING INTO PLAY. AND I THINK AS AN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL TEACHER, WHEN I READ COS PEOPLE ARE PUTTING ON COSTUMES FOR A PARADE, I WOULD THINK, AND TO ME IT ALMOST LOOKED LIKE LEADER HOSE INTO ME. I THINK A CHILD WOULD UNDERSTAND PUTTING ON COSTUMES FOR A PARADE, UH, JUST LIKE OUR CAKE, YOU ARE IN, YOU ARE, WHAT YOU ARE INSIDE IS WHAT MATTERS AND ALL YOUR BEAUTIFUL COLORS WITH, UM, WITHIN THE WORLD. THE STORY FOCUSES ON DIVERSITY, INCLUSIVITY, AND COMPASSION AND ADVENTURE. UM, THE PERSON WHO WROTE THE RECONSIDERATION FORM HAD SOME LEGITIMATE CONCERNS ABOUT, UM, SEXUALITY, NUDITY, TRANSGENDERISM TO KIDS, AND ALSO DEPICTS THE, THE OUTFITS THAT YOU MENTIONED. UM, I DID WANT TO ADDRESS THE NUDITY, UM, IN THE, UM, RECONSIDERATION FORM. THE REASON WHY IT NUDITY WAS A CONCERN WAS BECAUSE, UM, THE, THERE IS A PERSON, A, A, A MALE, UH, TOP, A TOPLESS WOMAN THAT HAS A BEARD AS WELL AS TWO MASTECTOMY SCARS WHERE HER BREASTS WERE REMOVED. UH, PARENTHESES, NUDITY. AND I KNOW EXACTLY WHERE THAT IS IN THAT BOOK, AND IT WOULD BE ON ONE OF THE LAST PAGES HERE. RIGHT. THOSE ARE NOT MASTECTOMY SCARS. THOSE ARE NOT MASTECTOMY SCARS. OKAY. UM, AND IF, IF YOU NEED ME TO GO FURTHER TO EXPLAIN HOW I KNOW THAT THOSE ARE NOT MASTECTOMY SCARS, I'D BE MORE THAN WILLING TO SAY. SO MASTECTOMY SCARS WOULD BE THE REMOVAL OF NIPPLES. AND THIS MAN CLEARLY HAS SOME THAT'S NOT A MASTECTOMY, BUT I THINK, I MEAN, I DON'T WANT TO GET TOO DEEP INTO IT, BUT I THINK THEY DO TATTOO NIPPLES BACK ON FOR SAKE OF THAT'S TRUE. YEAH. UH, BUT THERE IT IS REALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO, THAT'S A STRETCH TO SAY THAT THESE ARE MASTECTOMY SCARS. I THINK THINK THAT'S A REAL STRETCH IN THIS BOOK. UM, SO I'M, I'M, I'M NOT THERE WITH, WITH THIS. UM, I BELIEVE THAT, UM, I'D LIKE TO SAY THAT THERE'S NO ISSUE WITH THIS BOOK. UM, I, I DON'T THINK IT, UH, THAT THE MILLER TEST WOULD APPLY TO THIS BOOK. UM, I DON'T SEE, I DON'T SEE THE NUDITY. AGAIN, WE'RE NOT DISCUSSING WHETHER A BOOK IS OBSCENE OR NOT BECAUSE OF THE, ANY BOOK THAT CAN'T PASS THE MILLER TEST WOULD NOT BE IN THE LIBRARY, IN THE ADULT SECTION OF THE CHILDREN'S SECTION. THE ISSUE THAT WE ARE ADDRESSING IS ARE THESE, IS IS THE BOOK APPROPRIATE FOR CHILDREN 11 AND UNDER? AND MY QUESTION IS NOT THE CONTENT OR THE MESSAGE OF THE BOOK. IT IS THE IMAGERY OF THE BOOK. MM-HMM. . AND, YOU KNOW, THAT'S THE CONCERN THAT I HAVE. WELL, I'M, I'M WILLING TO BE OUT VOTED ON THIS, BUT I DO WANT EVERYONE TO STAND UP FOR WHAT THEY BELIEVE AND WHETHER OR NOT THEY THINK THIS IS APPROPRIATE TO BE IN THE CHILDREN'S SECTION RATHER THAN IN THE PARENTING SECTION. I AGREE WITH YOU, MARK. I I HAVE AN ISSUE WITH THE IMAGES IN THE BOOK AND CHILDREN THIS AGE, YOU KNOW, I'M, I'M NOT ARGUING AFTER ARGUING TEACHING FOR 24 YEARS, THE MESSAGE, I'M NOT ARGUING ABOUT THE RAINBOW FLAGS. RIGHT. AND, UM, THE FACT THAT THE GRANDFATHER IS GAY, YOU KNOW, I MAY NOT AGREE WITH THOSE THINGS, BUT THAT'S NOT REALLY AN ISSUE. THE ISSUES IS WHY DID THEY CHOOSE TO HAVE INAPPROPRIATE IMAGES IN THE, IN THE BOOK? AND THE FACT THAT, YOU KNOW, IT, IT IS A MESSAGE OF INCLUSIVITY AND THAT KIND OF MAKES THE FACT THAT THEY CHOSE TO USE THOSE IMAGES WORSE BECAUSE WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO DO IS NORMALIZE THAT TYPE OF IMAGERY BY USING THE FLAG OF INCLUSIVENESS. UM, AND THAT REALLY BOTHERS ME. I MEAN, I'VE, I'VE GOT THREE, THREE GRANDCHILDREN, [01:05:01] UH, FROM FOUR TO TWO AND YOU KNOW, I REALLY DON'T WANT THEM AT THIS STAGE THINKING THAT MM-HMM. BONDAGE AND S AND M AND ALL OF THAT IS ACCEPTABLE, RIGHT? CORRECT. WELL, THIS IS WHERE IT COMES DOWN TO PARENTING. THE LIBRARY IS NOT THE CHILD'S PARENT. THE COMMUNITY IS NOT THE CHILD'S PARENT. THE GOVERNMENT IS NOT THE CHILD'S PARENT. AND I'M NOT ARGUING THAT THE PARENTS ARGUING NEED TO BE THE PARENTS. AND IF THEY ARE CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT THEIR CHILD READS OR PICKS UP AT THE LIBRARY, THEY NEED TO BE WITH THEIR CHILD AS THEY'RE CHOOSING BOOKS, CHOOSE 'EM TOGETHER. IF THEY DON'T AGREE WITH IT, OKAY, PICK IT UP, THUMB THROUGH IT, READ IT, WHATEVER YOU DO. BUT THE PARENT HAS TO PARENT THEIR CHILD. AND IT'S NOT UP TO THE LIBRARY FOR US TO DO THAT. RIGHT. AND THAT IS, THAT IS IS THAT THIS STUFF IS BURIED FAIRLY DEEPLY IN THE BOOK. AND YOU HAVE TO READ THE ENTIRE THING, NOT JUST SOME, YOU CAN THUMB THROUGH IT. THUMB THROUGH IT. YOU CAN THUMB THROUGH IT. IN AN IDEAL WORLD THOUGH, FOR MANY YEARS, AND YOU CAN THUMB THROUGH A BOOK, IT'S LIKE SCANNING A BOOK AND YOU'RE LOOKING AT ILLUSTRATIONS. AND A PARENT CAN DO THAT WITHOUT READING THE BOOK PAGE BY PAGE. YOU CAN DO THAT. PARENT YOUR CHILD. AND IF YOU DECIDE IT'S NOT FOR YOU, YOU OR YOUR CHILD, DON'T CHECK IT OUT. THAT'S AND CLOSE THE BOOK. I THINK THAT'S THE, IN AN IDEAL WORLD THAT'S TRUE. BUT TODAY'S WORLD, THERE ARE A LOT OF PARENTS LETTING THEM RUN LOOSE IN THE LIBRARY. WELL, OH, DON'T I KNOW IT. I WORKED IN IT. UHHUH, . SO YES, I KNOW. SO I, I THINK IN ORDER FOR US TO BE ABLE TO PROTECT THE CHILDREN, IT NEEDS TO BE UP ON A HIGHER SHELF. NOPE. IT'S NOT. THAT'S NOT OUR JOB. THAT, WELL, YOU KNOW WHAT, I'M ON THE COMMITTEE AND THIS IS WHAT WE'RE HERE FOR, IS TO PROTECT THE CHILDREN. AND IF I TALK FOR, I TAUGHT FOR 24 YEARS AND I KNOW POINT OF ORDER, POINT OF ORDER. POINT, POINT OF ORDER. THANK YOU. UH, POINT OF ORDER. YEAH. WHAT DO WE NEED TO DO, UM, TO GET SOME AT, AT THIS TIME? I JUST WANNA REMIND YOU THAT WE HAVE HEARD FROM PUBLIC COMMENT AND WE'RE JUST TRYING TO DISCUSS AND TALK THIS OUT AND, AND I APPRECIATE THAT, THAT YOU ARE COMPASSIONATE FOR THIS BOOK. BUT LET US TALK IT OUT AND APPRECIATE THAT WE'RE NOT FINISHED TALKING IT OUT YET. UM, I'M SORRY THAT, THAT YOU'VE BEEN CUT OFF. WOULD YOU LIKE TO CONTINUE SPEAKING? NO, I WAS JUST SAYING, YOU KNOW, I'VE, I KNOW THAT, THAT IN A, IN A PERFECT WORLD THAT THE PARENTS SHOULD BE LOOKING AT WHAT THE CHILD'S DOING. THAT'S NOT HAPPENING NOWADAYS. I MEAN, MEREDITH, AM I RIGHT? DO THE PARENTS LET THEM JUST KIND OF GO SOMETIMES AND, AND GO LOOK AT BOOKS AND PULL BOOKS OFF THE SHELF TO LOOK AT 'EM FREELY? AND I CAN'T REALLY SPEAK FOR EVERY PARENT. THERE'S SOME PARENTS DEFINITELY WHO DO THAT. YEAH. THERE ARE OTHERS WHO DO NOT. I KNOW THAT MY SON SPENDS THE WHOLE TIME PLAYING. WELL, I PICK OUT THE BOOKS FOR US. YEAH. BUT THAT'S JUST ME. SO YES. I MEAN, IT'S, IT, IT'S, THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO DO AND THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO DON'T. YEAH. AND THAT IS MY CONCERN IS TO NOT HAVE IT TAKEN FROM THE LIBRARY OR NOT, YOU KNOW, HAVE IT OFF IN A CORNER SOMEWHERE, BUT HAVE IT ON A SHELF HIGH ENOUGH WITH THE ADULT SUPERVISION TO MAKE SURE THE KIDS AREN'T PULLING THAT BOOK FROM THE SHELF. BUT IT'S PARENT CHOICE. BUT THE BOOK IS MEANT FOR CHILDREN, UH, WHAT WAS IT? AGES THREE TO SIX. THREE TO SIX, YEAH. SO BY PUTTING IT IN THE PARENTING COLLECTION, YOU'RE NOT HAVING IT AVAILABLE TO THEM AT ALL. BUT I AGREE WITH MARK, THE, THE IMAGES IN HERE ARE JUST NOT FAR THREE TO SIX YEARS OLD. I'D LIKE TO MAKE A, UH, A MENTION THAT THIS BOOK HAS ONLY BEEN, UH, SINCE, SINCE WE RECEIVED THE RECONSIDERATION FORM, THIS BOOK HAS ONLY BEEN ON THE SHELVES LESS THAN 90 DAYS, AND IT WAS ONLY CHECKED OUT BY ONE PERSON. UH, AND ONLY ONE PERSON. THIS BOOK IS ONLY 11 PAGES. AND I, I BELIEVE THE IMAGE THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IS MAYBE ON TWO PAGES OF THOSE 11 PAGES. YEAH. BUT IT'S STILL THERE. AND THAT'S, TO ME, WHAT WE NEED TO ADDRESS. OKAY. SO JUST FOR CLARIFICATION REASONS, THE, UM, THE CONVERSATION IS MA BASICALLY ABOUT THE, THE MAN WEARING THE, THE, THE CLOTHING, THE LEATHER CLOTHING. YEAH. I MEAN, I WOULDN'T CARE IF IT'S TWO MEN OR A MAN AND A WOMAN. I, I [01:10:01] WOULD THINK IT WOULD BE EQUALLY INAPPROPRIATE FOR CHILDREN. RIGHT. UM, AND AGAIN, ARGUING THAT ONLY THAT WE CAN LEAVE THIS IN THE CHILDREN'S SECTION BECAUSE ONLY ONE PERSON HAS CHECKED IT OUT, IS EQUALLY AN ARGUMENT FOR SAYING WE CAN PUT IT IN THE PARENTING SECTION BECAUSE EXACTLY. NO CHILD IS GOING TO MISS IT. SO THAT'S KIND OF A, USING THAT AS AN ARGUMENT IS, IS KIND OF A WASH. UM, IT'S, AS I SAID, I'M, I'VE STATED MY OPINION ON THIS. I'M WILLING TO BE OUTVOTED IF PEOPLE DISAGREE WITH ME, BUT I REALLY THINK WE NEED TO COME TO A RESOLUTION ONE WAY OR THE OTHER ON THIS. MY, MY, MY CONCERN IS THEY'RE WEARING THE OUTFIT, BUT THEY'RE NOT DOING ANY ACTS WHILE WEARING THE OUTFIT. I'M SORRY, SAY THAT AGAIN. THEY'RE WEARING THE OUTFIT IN THE BOOK, IN THE IMAGE, BUT THEY'RE NOT DOING ANY INAPPROPRIATE ACTIONS. ACTS WITH THE THEN, THEN WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS THAT THAT'S APPROPRIATE FOR, UH, THAT IMAGE IS APPROPRIATE IN A BOOK FOR CHILDREN 12 UNDER THE AGE OF 12. I AM. OKAY. I'M SAYING IT'S OKAY. IN MY OPINION, AS LONG AS THEY'RE NOT DOING ANY ACTION, THAT'S WHAT I'M GONNA SAY. OKAY. BUT I THINK WHAT MAJORITY OF PARENTS WOULD HAVE WOULD NOT WANT TO HAVE THAT DISCUSSION AT THREE TO SIX YEARS OF AGE. AND IT'S THERE TO ASK THE QUESTION. PARENTING'S HARD. YOU HAVE TO HAVE DIFFICULT DISCUSSIONS WITH YOUR KIDS ALL THE TIME. EVERY DAY. YES. AT, AT AN APPROPRIATE AGE. I THINK NOT THREE TO SIX. YES. THREE TO SIX YEAR OLDS HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT THINGS THAT ARE NOT COMFORTABLE. UH, I AGREE. BUT, SO BRINGING IT ON, ON LIKE, THROUGH A BOOK LIKE THIS, I DON'T KNOW THAT IT WOULD NECESSARILY PROMOTE A DISCUSSION. A CHILD MAYBE, MAYBE NOT. THEY MIGHT BE MORE FOCUSED ON THE WORDS ON THE PAGE, WHAT'S BEING READ TO THEM. THEN THE IMAGES DEPEND, DEPENDS ON THE CHILD. USUALLY IF THEY'RE THREE TO SIX, THEY'RE GOING TO GRAVITATE MORE TO THE IMAGES. YES. BECAUSE THEY USUALLY DON'T, THEY CAN'T READ IT AT THAT POINT. POINT. EXACTLY. YEAH. BUT WHEN I READ TO MY CHILDREN, THEY DIDN'T QUESTION EVERY PICTURE ON THE PAGE. SO ALL KIDS ARE DIFFERENT. DO WE HAVE ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION ON THIS BOOK? NO, NOT FOR ME. DO WE HAVE A MOTION ON THE FLOOR? MY VOTE IS TO MAKE A MOTION. I MOTION TO HAVE THE BOOK SHELVED ON IN THE PARENT SECTION AND A HIGHER SHELF. I'LL SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR? MOTION DOES NOT PASS TWO TO TWO. SO, UH, MICHELLE, DOES THAT MEAN WE'RE KEEPING THAT BOOK WHERE IT LIES? YES. THANK YOU. AND WAIT, A TWO TO TWO KEEPS THE BOOK WHERE IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE. HOW CAN IT BE EVEN AND STAY, BECAUSE IT'S A TIE. WELL, DON'T WE HAVE A TIE BREAKER NORM? NORMALLY WE DO, ACCORDING TO THE, UH, THE WAY THE ORDINANCE IS WRITTEN, THE CHAIRPERSON IS, IS ACTUALLY DOESN'T HAVE ONLY BOW IN THE EVENT OF A TIE. IN THIS CASE, BECAUSE WE HAVE A LIMITED NUMBER OF THE COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT THE NUMBERS BEING WHAT THEY ARE, UM, WITH ONLY FOUR, UH, TIE IS CERTAINLY A POSSIBILITY. IN WHICH CASE IS WHAT WE HAVE TODAY. A TIE VOTE IS TECHNICALLY A FAILED VOTE, WHICH MEANS THE, WHICH MEANS IT TAKES AN AFFIRMATIVE MAJORITY OF THE MEMBERS PRESENT TO BE ABLE TO PASS SOME ACTION. AND SO IF YOU DON'T HAVE A MAJORITY TO PASS AN ACTION, NO ACTION CAN BE PASSED, WHICH MEANS THE STATUS QUO IS MAINTAINED. OKAY. MY NEXT QUESTION WOULD BE, UH, MEREDITH, IS IT GOING TO, IS THE PARENT CHOICE STILL GOING TO MOVE FROM THE SPOT THAT IT IS? YES. WE'RE, UM, RIGHT NOW WE ARE WANTING TO MOVE THE LIKE PRINTER RELEASE STATION AND EVERYTHING AND THE COMPUTER'S DOWN. SO WE'RE WORKING WITH IT AND FACILITIES TO HAVE THAT HAPPEN. [01:15:06] OKAY. UM, IT LOOKS LIKE [8. SELECTION OF NEXT MEETING DATE] OUR NEXT, UM, AGENDA IS ITEM IS THE SELECTION OF THE NEXT MEETING DATE. UM, DRA DO WE HAVE ANOTHER BOOK TO RECONSIDER AFTER THIS ONE THAT WAS JUST THERE IN CASE, UM, THERE WAS NO FINAL DECISION AS IT RELATES TO THE FORM. AND SO AT THIS TIME, I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY ACTION THAT NEEDS TO TAKE PLACE UNLESS THE COMMITTEE HAS ANYTHING THEY WOULD LIKE TO BRING. BUT OBVIOUSLY THERE'S NO MATERIAL AT THIS TIME FOR REVIEW. IS THERE ANYTHING THAT THE COMMITTEE WOULD LIKE TO BRING UP IF THERE, IF THERE ARE NO BOOKS TO BE REVIEWED, I WOULD LIKE TO MOVE THAT WE POSTPONE THE NEXT MEETING UNTIL WITHIN 30 DAYS OF HAVING A BOOK TO REVIEW. I MEAN, THERE'S, THERE'S NO SENSE IN OUR MEETING TO SAY THAT THERE'S NOTHING WE'RE GOING TO REVIEW. I THINK WE SHOULD SCHEDULE THE NEXT MEETING FOR NO LATER THAN 30 DAYS AFTER RECEIVING BOOKS FOR CONSIDERATION. I CAN SECOND THAT. MM-HMM. . ALL IN FAVOR OF THAT? MM-HMM. YES. VERY GOOD. ALL RIGHT. WELL IT IS 6 49 AND I'D LIKE TO, UH, HAVE SOMEONE GIVE A, A MOTION TO ADJOURN. I'LL MOVE TO ADJOURN. MOVE TO ADJOURN. I SECOND. ALL RIGHT. THAT'S THE END OF TONIGHT. THANK YOU SO MUCH. EVERYBODY, MAKE SURE YOU TURN OFF YOUR MICROPHONES. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.