* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [00:00:01] SO HE WANTS TO DO IT. WHO WANTS FOR THE PERSON TO GO AHEAD AND OPEN IT? I, UH, ROLAND B I MOVE THAT WE OPEN THIS MEETING. IT'S NOW [1. Call to order and roll call of members] 6 0 1. DOES IT NEED A SECOND? NO, SIR. IT'S JUST YOU CAN OPEN THE MEETING AND IF NOW WE COULD HAVE A, A MOTION FOR CONSIDERATION FOR A VICE CHAIR FOR THE MEETING. I MOVE. SHALL MOVE FOR MOTION? FOR CONSIDERATION FOR VICE CHAIR? SORRY. WHO, WHO WAS THAT? WHO DO YOU, WHO, WHO DO YOU PROPOSE TO BE THE VICE CHAIR? YOU SAID YOU WANTED TO, RIGHT? YOU WANT TO DO IT? I DIDN'T, I DIDN'T SAY THAT. OH, I'M SORRY. I WAS, I MISUNDERSTOOD FOR MORE SENIOR MEMBERS, SHOULD. JANINE, YOU WANNA DO IT? JUMP IN OR I WOULD MY UNIT, BUT BECAUSE I CAN'T READ THIS PIECE OF PAPER. OKAY. . I'LL DO IT BECAUSE I CAN'T SEE IT. I WOULD, I'LL DO PREFER SOMEBODY ELSE. SHE WORKS FOR A LAWYER, SO SHE . SO I KNOW I'VE BEEN ON THERE. SHE THE LONGEST. BUT YOU GO AHEAD AND MR. ROLAND, IF THAT'S WHO YOU, SO IF YOU WOULD RESTATE YOUR MOTION AND I MOVE THAT SUSAN. ACT AS PEARSON ACT, ACT AS OR ACTING, UH, PRESIDENT PLEASE. VICE CHAIR. VICE CHAIR. , VICE CHAIR. WHATEVER. WE ARE. WHATEVER. I SAID THAT MOTION? YEAH. OKAY. AND A VOTE FAVOR. AYE. AYE. AYE. AYE. SO I SAW NO OPPOSED. CORRECT. OKAY. THANK YOU. YOU UNANIM. WE ARE OKAY. SO CALLED ORDER AND ROLL. CALL. NOW IS MR. HAE CONSIDERED PRESENT OR ABSENT? HE'S CURRENTLY ABSENT. OKAY. JANINE? YES. YOU'RE PRESENT. RICK IS ABSENT. I AM HERE. SUSAN? HERE. ROLAND. PRESENT VACANT POSITION. AND MY KINDER SHOT IS HERE. PRESENT. OKAY. SO WE OPENED IT 6 0 2. [2. Approval of August 17, 2023, minutes] OKAY. UM, APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES. HAS EVERYONE HAD A CHANCE TO LOOK AT THE MINUTES? YES. FROM THE LAST MEETING. I MAY, MAY WE ACCEPT THEM AS THEY ARE. IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION BEFORE WE MOVE ON? NO, NO. I SECOND SECOND. THE MOTION TO APPROVE. OKAY. THANK YOU. OKAY. CITIZEN COMMUNICATION MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC ARE INVITED TO GIVE COMMENTS AT THIS TIME LASTING NOT LONGER THAN THREE MINUTES. IS THERE ANYONE ME SPEAKING? NO. OKAY. MOVING ON. [4.A. Hold a public hearing and take action on a Certificate of Appropriateness, HC-23-0007, a request to relocate a barn from outside of the Historic District to an existing single-family property within the district, located on the east side of North Iowa Avenue at the intersection of North Iowa Avenue and Coryell Street with the address of 422 North Iowa Avenue.] UH, FOUR PUBLIC HEARING IN ACTION. WE'RE GONNA LOOK AT CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS, HC 23 0 0 0 7. A REQUEST TO RELOCATE A BARN FROM OUTSIDE OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT TO AN EXISTING SINGLE FAMILY PROPERTY WITHIN THE DISTRICT, LOCATED ON THE EAST SIDE OF NORTH IOWA AVENUE AT THE INTERSECTION OF NORTH IOWA AVENUE AND CORELLE STREET WITH THE ADDRESS OF 4 2 2 NORTH IOWA AVENUE. DO WE NEED TO START A PUBLIC HEARING FOR THIS? OH, YES. DO WE NEED TO OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING? OH, OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. OKAY. UH, I'M OPENING THE PUBLIC HEARING . OKAY. 6 0 4 8 6 0 4. OKAY. PERFECT. YEAH. WELL, IS THIS OH, GOOD. IT'S WORKING. OKAY. GOOD EVENING EVERYBODY. UM, THIS CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS IS REQUESTING TO RE RELOCATE A 12 BY 24 FOOT WOODEN BARN, UM, THAT'S CURRENTLY LOCATED AT 1 5 1 2 EAST WALKER STREET, WHICH IS OUTSIDE THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. AND TO MOVE IT TO 4 2 2 NORTH IOWA AVENUE, WHICH IS WITHIN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. UM, THE BARN'S GOING TO BE PLACED ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE EXISTING HOME. THE 12 FOOT SIDE OF THE BARN WILL FACE NORTH IOWA STREET OR AVENUE, AND THE BARN DOORS ON THE 24 FOOT SIDE WILL FACE NORTH INTO THE BACKYARD. THE BARN WILL BE SET EIGHT FEET FROM THE BACK OF THE HOUSE, AND THE REAR OF THE BARN WILL MEET THE SIDE SETBACK REQUIREMENTS. CAN YOU ANNOUNCE HIS ARRIVAL AT 6 0 5? OH, I, I NEED TO ANNOUNCE THAT RICK PEARSON HAS JUST MOSEYED ON IN TO JOIN US. GOOD EVENING, RICK. MR. JONES AT IT'S 6 0 5. OKAY. THANK YOU. MM-HMM. . SO THIS FIRST PICTURE IS THE VIEW OF THE HOUSE, THE EXISTING HOUSE ON NORTH IOWA AVENUE. THE SECOND PICTURE, YOU CAN SEE WHERE, UH, WE'VE MARKED OFF WHERE THERE USED TO BE A GARAGE, A DETACHED GARAGE AT THAT LOCATION, WHICH IS WHERE THEY PROPOSED TO PUT THE BARN. HERE ARE SOME PICTURES OF THE BARN. UM, THE FIRST ONE'S THE NORTH ELEVATION, AND THE SECOND ONE IS THE SOUTH ELEVATION. SO [00:05:01] THE WOOD, THE VERTICAL SURFACES ARE WOOD IN BOARD AND BATTEN CONFIGURATION. AND THE ROOF IS A COMPOSITE, UM, SHINGLES. SO ALL OF IT IS, UH, CONSISTENT WITH THE DESIGN GUIDELINES EXCEPT FOR BORDEN. BATTEN IS NOT ONE OF OUR, UH, THE HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINE CONFIGURATIONS FOR WOOD SIDING. CAN, CAN YOU SPEAK UP JUST A LITTLE BIT MORE? OH, IS THAT BETTER? THAT'S, OH, OKAY. BETTER. I ALMOST HAVE TO KISS IT. WHAT DID YOU SAY ABOUT BOARD AND BATTEN BOARD AND BATTEN? YEAH. SO BOARD AND BATTEN. SO WE, UM, THE HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES DO CALL FOR LAP, FLUSH, DROP OR BUTT CONFIGURATION. UM, BOARD AND BATTEN IS NOT ONE OF THE CONFIGURATIONS IN OUR GUIDELINES. HOWEVER, THERE'S QUITE A FEW EXAMPLES THROUGHOUT THE DISTRICT OF BORDEN, BATTEN ANCILLARY BUILDINGS. UM, SO HERE'S JUST A FEW EXAMPLES AND WE WENT OUT AND TOOK SOME PICTURES. THERE'S TWO THERE AND TWO MORE PRETTY SIGNIFICANT BUILDINGS. YEAH, THAT ONE, THAT ONE IS NOT HISTORICAL , BUT THEY'RE WITHIN THE DISTRICT. THEY'RE WITHIN THE DISTRICT. THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT WE WERE LOOKING FOR, 1994. SO STAFF FINDINGS, THE APPLICANT PROVIDED PROOF THAT A DETACHED GARAGE EXISTED ON THE PROPERTY AND THE PROPOSED LOCATION OF THE BARN AND WAS REMOVED SOMETIME BETWEEN 2007 AND 2013. THE BARN SIDING MATERIAL IS WOOD AND IS CONSISTENT WITH THE HISTORIC DISTRICT DESIGN GUIDELINES. THE CONFIGURATION OF THE WOOD SIDING ON THE BARN IS BOARD AND BATTEN. AND ALTHOUGH IT'S NOT CONSISTENT WITH THE DESIGN GUIDELINES, THERE ARE SEVERAL EXAMPLES OF BOARD AND BATTEN STRUCTURES AND ANCILLARY STRUCTURES WITHIN THE DISTRICT. UM, THE COMPOSITION ROOF SHINGLES ON THE BARN ARE CONSISTENT WITH THE DESIGN GUIDELINES AND THE ROOF PITCH. SIDING AND DESIGN OF THE BARN ARE SIMILAR AND COMPLEMENT THE DESIGN OF THE EXISTING HOUSE. SO, I'M HERE IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS. AND SO THE BOARD AND BATTEN, ALTHOUGH IT'S NOT IN THE GUIDELINES, IT'S NOT PROHIBITED. DOES THAT MA I DON'T KNOW IF I KNOW THAT THEY'RE, THEY'RE FROM, THEY'RE SILENT ON YEAH, IT'S, IT'S SILENT. OKAY. SO, THANK YOU. I THINK IT'S SORT OF WITHIN OUR, OUR PURVIEW AS A BOARD. YES, IT'S OKAY. EMPHASIZE THAT IT'S ON HER, THE DISTRICT. IT IT WAS USED YEAH. DURING THAT TIME. SO THE APPLICANT IS HERE. ABSOLUTELY. YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? DOES THE APPLICANT WISH TO SPEAK TO US? DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR US? DO WE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR HER? MS. KATIE? NO. IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION? DO WE NEED TO HAVE ANY DISCUSSION? WHAT DID YOU SAY? Y'ALL ARE NOT SPEAKING INTO YOUR MIC. NO, I'M SO SORRY. DO WE NEED TO HAVE ANY KIND OF DISCUSSION ON THIS, UM, CERTIFICATE OF APPROVAL? SOMEONE MAKE, SOMEONE CAN MAKE A MOTION AND WE CAN DISCUSS AFTER THE MOTIONS. OKAY. I MAYBE WE ACCEPT IT AS I, I SECOND THAT. I SECOND IT TOO. UM, BEFORE WE DO THAT, CAN WE, IF IF THERE'S NO MORE PRESENTATION, CAN WE MAYBE CLOSE A PUBLIC HEARING AND THEN AFTER THAT, IF SOMEONE WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION. OKAY. AND IF YOU COULD NOTE THE TIME THAT YOU CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING, PLEASE. OKAY. SO I'M CLOSING THE PUBLIC HEARING AT 6 0 9. OKAY. DO I HEAR A MOTION TO ACCEPT THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROVAL? YES. YES. I MOVE. SO, AND IT'S SECONDED. WELL, SINCE SHE'S ALL SECOND. OKAY. OKAY. IS THAT ALL WE HAVE TO DO ON THAT? OH, VOTE. VOTE. YEAH. DISCUSSION. IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION? ANY DISCUSSION AT ALL? OKAY. WELL, LET'S GO AHEAD AND VOTE THEN. EVERYONE, UH, WANTING TO SAY I DO SO PLEASE. AYE. AYE. ANY NAYS? ALL RIGHT. I THINK IT'S APPROVED. CONGRATULATIONS. MAY YOU ENJOY YOUR BARN. I, OKAY. WE'RE GONNA GO GET, UH, MR. HI. THE NEW S SENT ATTACHMENTS A COUPLE WEEKS AGO. I THINK THEY'LL PRESENT THAT AGAIN. WE'RE GETTING OUR PRESS BACK. YEP. HE'S GONNA REJOIN US. YEAH. MARCH IN. IN THE MEANTIME, I NEED A CALENDAR FOR NEXT YEAR. WE'RE GONNA APPROVE THE CALENDAR, RIGHT? I DON'T HAVE A COPY. DOES HE WANNA HAVE AN EXTRA COPY? AND SOMEONE, CAN SOMEONE NOTE THE TIME THAT HE JOINED? OH, I BEG YOUR PARDON. SORRY. THANK YOU. UH, MR. HA HAS REJOINED US AT SIX 10. [00:10:08] THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT, SIR. YES. WE APPROVED THE MINUTES. YEP. TOOK ROLL. OKAY. SO WHEN WE'RE READY FOR NEW BUSINESS NUMBER FIVE. UM, OKAY. DO I NEED TO MAKE A MOTION TO STAND DOWN AND NO. OKAY. . HE CAN, HE CAN JUST, HE CAN ASSUME THAT THOSE DUTIES ARE VERY GOOD. THANK YOU, [5.A. Hold a discussion regarding windows as it pertains to the League City Historic District Design Guidelines. ] . OKAY. THE NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS NUMBER FIVE, HOLD A DISCUSSION REGARDING WINDOWS AS IT PERTAINS TO LEAGUE CITY HISTORIC DISTRICT DESIGN GUIDELINES. SO THIS IS SOMETHING THAT Y'ALL REQUESTED TO DISCUSS. AND, UM, THIS FIRST SLIDE HAS THE, THE DESIGN GUIDELINES AS IT, UM, PERTAINS TO WINDOW REPLACEMENT. UM, THERE'S THIS, AND THEN HERE ARE SOME, I DON'T KNOW HOW HELPFUL THIS WILL BE FOR YOU GUYS. I'M HOPING Y'ALL HAD A CHANCE TO LOOK AT THIS, AND NOW YOU CAN HAVE A DISCUSSION. I DON'T KNOW IF I COULD LEAD THAT DISCUSSION FOR YOU. SO, WELL, I CAN, I CAN KIND OF SPEAK TO THESE DETAILS IN PARTICULAR. UM, THESE ARE DETAILS FROM ANDERSON WINDOWS, UM, WHICH ARE, YOU KNOW, JUST ONE OF THE MAJOR WINDOW MANUFACTURERS, I THINK. I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANYTHING ABOUT THESE DETAILS THAT ARE VERY UNIQUE, UH, TO ANDERSON. UM, YOU'D SEE THIS ON A NUMBER OF OTHER COMPANIES, BUT THE MAIN POINT OF SHOWING THESE DETAILS IS THE CONFIGURATION OF A NAILING FLANGE VERSUS ONE WITHOUT A NAILING FLANGE. AND THAT THERE, THERE IS SOME AVAILABILITY, UH, DEPENDING ON HOW MUCH YOU'RE WILLING TO PAY, UH, TO GET WINDOWS, UH, FROM A NEW MANUFACTURER THAT MEET ALL THE NEW, UH, ENERGY EFFICIENCY REQUIREMENTS AND WINDSTORM REQUIREMENTS, THINGS LIKE THAT. YOU CAN GET WINDOWS, UH, THAT WILL SATISFY, UM, LOOK AND FEEL CONCERNS. UM, AS FAR AS MATCHING TO EXISTING. I MEAN, THAT HON HONESTLY, ANDERSON IMP PELLA, FOR INSTANCE, SPECIALIZE IN MATCHING HISTORIC PROPORTION AND, AND, UM, AND, UH, FENESTRATION AND EVERYTHING ELSE. SO IT'S, IT'S, IT'S, I THINK IT'S MOSTLY TO POINT OUT TO YOU THAT THERE ARE CONSISTENTLY COMMENTS ABOUT HOW WE CAN'T GET WINDOWS THAT MATCH THE EXISTING. AND THAT'S, IT'S NOT THAT IT'S NOT TRUE, IT'S JUST THAT IT'S, IT'S A COST THING GENERALLY. YEAH. UM, YOU KNOW, AND THE FIRST WINDOW, IT'S VERY KIND OF HARD TO SEE HONESTLY IN THESE DETAILS. BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE, UH, SORT OF THE TOP, UH, YOU KNOW, THE HEAD AND THE JAN OR THE HEAD AND THE SILL, UH, CONDITIONS, TOP AND BOTTOM OF THE, OF THE IMAGE, UM, YOU CAN SORT OF MAKE OUT THE NAILING FIN. UM, IT'S A LITTLE HARD TO SEE. YEAH. CAN YOU KIND OF POINT AT IT? YEAH. COULD YOU POINT AT IT? BECAUSE THEY LOOK IDENTICAL TO ME. SEE THIS PART THAT COMES DOWN RIGHT HERE, IT'S FIXED. SEE HOW, HOW IT ATTACHES TO THAT EXTRUSION, THAT'S PART OF THE, THE EXTRUSION WHEN THEY MAKE THAT VINYL PIECE. UM, AND THEY, THEY INCLUDE THAT IN, IN THE EXTRUSION. AND THAT GOES ALL THE WAY AROUND ALL FOUR SIDES. AND BASICALLY WHAT THAT ALLOWS 'EM TO DO IS, EXCUSE ME, MR. UNDERSHOT, IF YOU COULD, IF WE COULD GET YOU BACK TOWARDS THE MIC TO GET YOU ON , WE'RE GONNA, WE APOLOGIZE. WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO PLAY A LITTLE, SO WE MAKE SURE WE GET IT ON THE RECORDING. SO, SO WHAT, WHAT THEY, THE REASON THEY PUT THAT IN THERE IS FOR EASE OF CONSTRUCTION, UM, YOU CAN SET THE WINDOW IN THE HOLE THAT, THAT IS FRAMED FOR THE WINDOW AND YOU, YOU LITERALLY NAIL IT OR SCREW IT THROUGH THAT FIN INTO THE WOOD THAT'S BEHIND IT. AND THEN YOU CAN FLASH TO IT, YOU KNOW, DO EVERYTHING ELSE. YOU KNOW, IT MAKES IT VERY SIMPLE. UH, IT'S, IT'S IN A LOT OF WAYS, IT'S, IT'S KIND OF, UH, FOOLPROOF. UM, YOU KNOW, YOU'VE GOT THIS PIECE OF VINYL, IT'S NOT GONNA LEAK, AND THEY ACTUALLY TAKE THE TAPE OVER THE TOP OF IT. RIGHT? RIGHT. YEAH. UM, THIS WINDOW THOUGH, IF YOU LOOK AT THIS CONFIGURATION HERE, AND YOU LOOK AT THE NEXT ONE ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE, YOU CAN SEE THAT THERE'S NO VERTICAL, UH, ATTACHED TO IT. THESE ARE THE SAME MODEL OF WINDOWS IN THIS CASE. AND THIS IS THE LOWEST LEVEL OF RESIDENTIAL WINDOW FROM ANDERSON. UH, THE REASON YOU WOULD DO THAT IS IF YOU WANTED TO SET IT BACK IN THE OPENING, UM, YOU KNOW, IF THERE'S A DIFFERENT CONFIGURATION YOU WANTED TO DO, UH, USE A SEAL EXTENSION. THERE'S ALL KINDS OF DIFFERENT REASONS WHY YOU WOULD DO THAT. BUT THAT, THAT'S BASICALLY WHAT I'M, WHAT I WAS TRYING TO ILLUSTRATE HERE. YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S VERY, VERY EASY, EASILY AVAILABLE ON THEIR WEBSITE, UH, TO FIND THESE. AND AGAIN, PRETTY MUCH EVERY WINDOW MANUFACTURER'S GONNA HAVE THIS CONFIGURATION. IN FACT, ON NAILING FINS, THEY WILL. IF YOU, IF [00:15:01] YOU HAVE A BIG ENOUGH ORDER AND YOU, AND YOU HAVE A REASON YOU'RE WILLING TO PAY FOR IT, YOU CAN GET IT WITH NAILING FINS ON THREE SIDES. YOU CAN GET IT WITH NAILING FINS ON NO SIDES. YOU CAN GET IT WITH A DETACHABLE. THERE'S A LOT OF DIFFERENT WAYS TO DO THIS. SO, UM, THEY WILL MOVE IT IN THE EXTRUSION, BUT AGAIN, IT HAS TO BE A LARGE ENOUGH ORDER FOR THEM TO CHANGE THEIR DYES AND THINGS TO DO THAT. SO, CAN I ASK A SIMPLE QUESTION? MM-HMM. WITH FLANGE OR WITHOUT FLANGE IS MORE RECESSED INTO THE HOUSE WITHOUT, AS OPPOSED TO BEING FLUSH. WITHOUT, WOULD BE WITHOUT, YOU'D BE ABLE TO SET IT BACK FURTHER IS SETTING IT BACK. MM-HMM. . OKAY. THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT. THANK YOU. THE, THE, THE NAILING FENCE ITSELF, KIND OF, IF YOU HAVE A NAILING FENCE THAT'S INTEGRAL TO THE EXTRUSION, THE WAY THAT IT'S GONNA MOUNT WITHIN THE HOLE, THE OPENING, IT'S, IT'S DEPENDENT ON THE WIDTH OF THE, OF THE JAM ITSELF. RIGHT? RIGHT. IT, IT, YOU CAN'T HAVE A NAILING FAN IF YOU WANNA SET IT FURTHER BACK INTO THE WINDOW THAN THE DEPTH OF THE, THE FRAME. RIGHT. SO, OKAY. UM, SO MOSTLY THEY'RE, THEY'RE VERY GOOD WINDOWS. THAT'S WHAT WE PUT IN. MM-HMM. MY HOUSE. MM-HMM. . AND THEY'RE VERY EXPENSIVE WINDOWS. MM-HMM. , THEY ARE VERY GOOD WINDOWS. AND, YOU KNOW, FOR ANDERSON, YOU LOOK AT MY HOUSE, THEY'RE ALL ANDERSON WINDOWS IN THERE. MM-HMM. . AND, AND I CHOSE ANDERSON BECAUSE YOU CAN GET 'EM AT HOME DEPOT. UM, YOU CAN ORDER BASICALLY THEIR WHOLE LINE THERE IF YOU WANT TO. AGAIN, IT'S ALL MONEY . AND THAT'S GOOD BECAUSE A LONG TIME AGO YOU DIDN'T DO THAT. RIGHT? YEAH. UM, AND, YOU KNOW, GOING BACK TO, I THINK WE HAD A DISCUSSION A LITTLE BIT ABOUT LIKE THE, THE ALUMINUM WINDOWS, FOR INSTANCE IN A MID-CENTURY HOUSE, AND HOW ON, IN A LOT OF WAYS THAT'S GONNA BE THE HARDER ONE TO MATCH. 'CAUSE THE, THE SIGHT LINES ARE VERY NARROW. AGAIN, YOU CAN, THERE ARE PEOPLE OUT THERE THAT WILL MAKE CUSTOM WINDOWS. UM, IT'S JUST, IT'S A COST THING AT THAT POINT. SO, UM, BUT MY HOPE IN PROVIDING THESE DETAILS WAS MOSTLY JUST TO SHOW YOU THAT THERE ARE WAYS TO DO MODERN WINDOWS IN TRADITIONAL CONFIGURATIONS IF YOU'RE WILLING TO KIND OF SEARCH IT OUT AND DO IT AND HAVE THE MONEY TO DO IT, AND HAVE THE MONEY TO DO IT. RIGHT. . SO, UM, I'M GONNA ASK YOU A QUESTION, BUT LET ME ASK YOU THIS ONE FIRST. MM-HMM. . SO IF I LOOK AT THESE TWO WINDOWS, THOUGH, THE WAY THEY'RE INSTALLED, WHETHER THEY HAVE THE FINS OR NOT, THEY'RE INSTALLING THEM EXACTLY IN THE SAME LOCATION, IN THE OPENING IN THIS DETAIL. YES. IN THIS DETAIL. MM-HMM. , BECAUSE THE FIN IS NO LONGER CAN MOVE IT BACK. THE FIN'S BIGGER THAN THE HOLE. YOU CAN ONLY MOUNT IT ON THE FACE. MM-HMM. WITH THIS, YOU COULD PUSH IT AS FAR BACK OR FOR YOU WANT MM-HMM. . YEAH. SO, AND THEN I WAS GONNA ASK YOU, RICK, TO THEN DESCRIBE TO US NON ARCHITECTS WHY THE LOCATION OF THE WINDOW MAKES A DIFFERENCE. I THINK THE PRIMARY THING IS THE SHADOW LINES THAT REALLY MAKES, WHEN YOU LOOK AT AN OLD HOUSE, YOU CAN SEE THE SHADOWS ON THE GLASS. AND UH, AND PRIMARILY YOU CAN REMEMBER THE MOST OF THE US BUILDING HOUSES IS USING MASONRY. AND THIS, YOU HAVE A SHADOW LINE WITH MASONRY BECAUSE THE FIN MOUNTS, THE FIN MOUNTS AGAINST THE WALL AND THE MASONRY STICKS IN FRONT OF IT. SO YOU HAVE THE SHADOW LINES. OKAY. BUT IN OUR, OUR NEIGHBORHOOD OR THE, THE, THE HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOOD, THESE WINDOWS ACTUALLY PROTRUDE PAST MM-HMM. , THE, THEY ACTUALLY STICK OUT FURTHER THAN THE, WITH A FIN. THEN THE, UH, THE, THE SIDING AND THAT, AND THAT'S A DEAD GIVEAWAY. YOU CAN SEE IT. YEAH. THAT'S OBVIOUSLY, THAT'S CONSIDERING KIND OF JUST A, A SIDING APPLICATION. LIKE IF YOU'RE USING WOOD SIDING, FOR INSTANCE, UM, THE WOOD SIDING, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN LOOK AT THE DIMENSION HERE. THIS ONE AND THREE EIGHTHS DIMENSION, UM, THE SIDING'S GONNA BE SHALLOWER THAN THAT GENERALLY. CORRECT. UH, AND THAT'S SORT OF WHERE THAT FACE PROJECTS. RIGHT. WHEREAS THIS, THE, THE ONE WITHOUT THE NAILING FIN AND THE MASON REOPENING, FOR INSTANCE, YOU HAVE TO MOUNT THE WINDOW TO WOOD. RIGHT. YOU CAN'T, YOU'RE NOT GONNA SCREW THE WINDOW INTO A PIECE OF THE BRICK FACE. YOU'RE GONNA MOUNT IT TO THE WOOD. RIGHT. THAT WOOD'S IN BEHIND THE, THE, UH, VENEER IN A, IN A BRICK SITUA, YOU KNOW, IN A BRICK, UH, APPLICATION. SO YEAH. IT, IT GIVES YOU THE MORE HISTORIC SHADOW LINES AND, YOU KNOW, RECESS TO TO, YEAH. TO RICK'S POINT. SO, UM, THIS DOESN'T APPLY OBVIOUSLY TO OLD HOUSES, BUT WITH NEW HOUSES, THEY'RE PUTTING THAT SHEATHING ON MM-HMM. . SO IN THAT PARTICULAR CASE, IF YOU'RE PUTTING ONE OF THESE HOUSES OR ONE OF THESE WINDOWS IN A NEW HOUSE, YOU HAVE THE WINDOW TO THE, UH, FRAMING MEMBERS, AND THEN YOU'VE GOT THAT SHEATHING MM-HMM. . AND THEN YOU'VE GOT WHATEVER THE, UM, THE SIDING OR HARD THE SIDING OR WHATEVER. DOES THAT CREATE ENOUGH, OR IS THAT STILL WELL, IT'S A GOOD POINT. UM, THE NAILING FIN IS GONNA, YOU'RE STILL GONNA BE, THE NAILING FIN IS GONNA FORCE YOU TO PUT THE WINDOW AT THE SHEATHING LINE. RIGHT. BECAUSE THE SHEATHING IS [00:20:01] GONNA GO UP FIRST, AND THEN YOU'RE GONNA, YOU'RE GONNA PUT THE NAILING FIN ON THE SHEATHING, RIGHT? OH, HELL. UM, THERE'S TWO WAYS BACK WRAP. THERE'S TWO WAYS THIS KIND OF COMES INTO PLAY NOW, YOU KNOW, IF YOU JUST USE SHEATHING, THEN IT'S SET AT THE SHEATHING LINE. UH, CURRENT AND NEW ENERGY CODES ARE GONNA START ENFORCING CONTINUOUS INSULATION, THINGS LIKE THAT, THAT ACTUALLY WORKS IN YOUR ADVANTAGE IF YOU DO THE INSULATION OUTBOARD OF THE SHEATHING. 'CAUSE THAT THEN THICKENS THE, THE, THE, YOU KNOW, THE MATERIAL TO THE, TO THE OUTSIDE OF THE SHEATHING. RIGHT. THEN YOU HAVE THE SIDING AND SLEEPERS AND, YOU KNOW, ALL THAT STUFF THAT GOES OUTSIDE OF THAT. UM, YOU KNOW, THERE'S OTHER SHEATHING MATERIALS NOW THOUGH, WHERE YOU'VE GOT THE CONTINUOUS INSTALLATION INCLUDED, LIKE ZIP SYSTEM AND OTHER, OTHER THINGS WHICH KEEPS THE SHEATHING OUTBOARD. AND THEN THAT YOU, YOU'VE LOST THAT, THAT DEPTH. THAT'S POSSIBLE. SO NAILING FINS DO LIMIT YOU, UM, TO WHERE THAT, THAT CAN GO. UH, I, I GUESS I WOULD SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, NAILING FINS IN A MASONRY APPLICATION LOOK MORE TRADITIONAL IF THE, IF THE ENTIRE SURROUND OF THE OPENING IS MASONRY. 'CAUSE IT IS GONNA STILL SET BACK BEHIND THE VENEER. YEP. UM, BUT WITH THE WOOD, WOOD SIDING OR SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES, STUCCO OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, IT'S ALWAYS GONNA END UP BEING SORT OF OUTBOARD. MY, MY HOUSE PERSONALLY, I HAVE A SORT OF A TRACT HOME AND THE FACE OF THE FRAME STICKS OUT FROM THE HARDY BOARD. MM-HMM. , IT'S THEIR NAILING FIN WINDOWS. UM, SO TAKING IT FROM A, UM, TECHNICAL DISCUSSION MM-HMM. TO HOW DO WE APPLY IT TO THE, UH, DESIGN STANDARDS OR DO WE APPLY IT TO THE DESIGN STANDARDS. UM, I MEAN FROM, YOU KNOW, I'VE SEEN THIS AND I DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO DO IT, BUT I'VE LOOKED AT WHERE PEOPLE PUT IN VINYL WINDOWS AND I SAID, AH, YOU JUST KILLED THAT HOUSE. YOU KNOW, I, I I KNOW IT HURTS THE LOOK OF THE HOUSE. MM-HMM. . UM, UH, AND I GUESS, YOU KNOW, FROM A HISTORIC PRESERVATION STANDPOINT, I WOULD SAY THAT THAT WOULD BE WITHIN OUR PURVIEW TO SAY MM-HMM. PUTTING IN THOSE WINDOWS, UM, AFFECT IT. SO HOW DO WE, DO WE AGREE ON THAT? THAT, UM, THIS IS A TOPIC PERTINENT FOR THE, UH, HISTORIC DESIGN STANDARDS? UH, I THINK IT, I THINK IT'S, UH, THE MATERIAL IS ACTUALLY LISTED VI I THINK VINYL'S LISTED AS AN ACCEPTABLE MATERIAL. BUT THAT DOES NOT, I DON'T THINK THAT PRECLUDES YOU FROM CONSIDERING THE, THE, THE CORRECT, UM, CONFIGURATION OF THE WINDOW IN WHETHER OR NOT IT'S HISTORICALLY ACCURATE. RIGHT. I THINK THAT'S, YEAH. I THINK, YEAH. AND I'VE SEEN, I CAN'T CALL IT OUT RIGHT NOW AND I COULDN'T FIND IT, BUT ANY OF THE DUY PLATTER NEW TOWNS, THEY'VE GOT A CALL OUT ON HOW FAR IT'S GONNA SIT BACK. MM-HMM. AND THEY'RE, THEY, THEY DON'T PRECLUDE VINYL OR UH, UH, METAL. I MEAN, THEY CAN'T. BUT, UH, UH, IF WE, IF WE CAN GET STAFF TO RESEARCH THAT AND JUST FIND OUT HOW THEY'RE CALLING THAT OUT, THEY'VE MM-HMM. , I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY THOUSANDS OF HOUSES THOSE GUYS HAVE DONE. WAIT, WHO ARE YOU REFERRING TO? DWAYNE PLATTER. UM, SEASIDE HACHEN CELEBRATION. ALL THE NEW TOWNS THAT YOU SEE IN TV SHOWS OR WHATEVER, MOVIES, FLORIDA AND STUFF. MM-HMM. , FLORIDA, SEASIDE'S, THE FIRST ONE IN FLORIDA. CELEBRATIONS THERE TOO. THESE ARE TOWNS YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. THESE ARE NEW TOWNS. OKAY. AND DWAYNE PLATTER, KIND OF THE LEADERS OF THE HISTORICAL TOWNS, AND THEY'VE GOT A CALL OUT IN THEIR, UH, THEIR, ALL THE RESTRICTIONS. I JUST CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT THE NUMBER IS ON HOW YOU HAVE TO DO IT. IT HAS TO SIT BACK A CERTAIN NUMBER ON THEIR, ON THEIR, UH, ON THE OFF THE FACADE. MM-HMM. , THE WINDOWS DO GO, BUT THAT'S NEW CONSTRUCTION. RIGHT. THAT'S NEW CONSTRUCTION. THAT'S NEW CONSTRUCTION. BUT IT'D BE RETROFIT ANYTHING. IT'S JUST A GOOD, UH, YOU KNOW, THEY'VE GOT MAJOR HOME BUILDERS BUILDING IN THERE AND I'M SURE THEY'VE COME UP WITH A COMPROMISE THAT'S MAKES IT LOOK RIGHT. UM, AND I USED TO KNOW THAT NUMBER OFF THE, I WANNA SAY IT'S AN INCH AND A QUARTER MM-HMM. , BUT I CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT THE NUMBER IS OFF, OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD. YEAH. COULDN'T, I COULDN'T SPEAK TO THE NUMBER. YEAH. UM, I, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT NONE OF THIS IS REALLY, NONE OF THIS PRECLUDES, UH, SOMEBODY FROM GOING IN THERE AND USING THE WINDOWS THAT, THAT THEY WOULD LIKE, AGAIN, IT'S A COST THING. RIGHT. IT, IT'S JUST, YOU'RE, YOU'RE, YOU'RE, UH, PRESCRIBING A NEW STANDARD, UH, TO THE WINDOW, THE WINDOW STANDARD AND HISTORIC DISTRICT THAT JUST DEFINES A, UM, I GUESS A RECESS DIMENSION IS REALLY WHAT YOU'RE DOING. THAT'S ALL YOU REALLY DO. AND AT THAT POINT, NAIL FIN WINDOWS BECOME, THEY JUST CAN'T COMPLY. RIGHT. UNLESS, UNLESS YOU HAVE A MASONRY. RIGHT. IF YOU'RE REDOING 'EM AN OLD MASONRY STRUCTURE, THAT WOULD STILL BE GOOD. BUT THAT YOU'RE RIGHT. ALL YOU'RE DOING IS, IS ALL WE WOULD DO IS COME UP WITH A [00:25:01] STANDARD FOR A RECESS MM-HMM. . AND THAT'S ALL YOU SAY. DON'T GET INTO ANYTHING ELSE. AND I THINK THAT'S A GOOD PLACE TO START IS, IS THE, UH, THOSE NEW TOWN, UH, DESIGN GUIDELINES. 'CAUSE UH, I DID SOME WORK IN A, IN A TOWN IN, UH, IN, UH, FORT WORTH OR NEAR FORT WORTH. AND IT WAS THE ENTIRE, IT WAS ALL NEW BUILD CONSTRUCTION. IT WAS OUT IN THE MIDDLE OF A FIELD, UH, YOU KNOW, PASTURE OR SOMETHING. BUT ALL THE, ALL THE HOUSES HAD TO HAVE HISTORIC PROPORTION AND HISTORIC MATERIALITY. AND I DON'T KNOW IF THE, I DON'T KNOW IF THE WINDOW RECESS WAS, WAS, UH, A REQUIREMENT, BUT THERE ARE TOWNS ALL OVER THE PLACE THAT ARE TRYING TO DO THAT. SO IF I, IF I COULD INTERJECT REAL QUICK. I'M SEEING SOME CONFUSING FACES WHEN I HEARD SOME OF THE TOWNS MM-HMM. IT JUST A, A, A REFERENCE, IF Y'ALL REMEMBER WATCHING THE TRUMAN SHOW WITH JIM CARREY. THAT IS SEASIDE. THAT'S SEASIDE THAT WAS ACTUALLY FILMED IN SEASIDE. THAT'S, SO WHAT YOU SEE FROM THAT MOVIE IS ACTUALLY SEASIDE MM-HMM. . AND THAT'S, THAT'S DWAYNE PLATTER. THEY STARTED ALL THAT. MM-HMM. . OKAY. I'M SORRY. CAN SOMEONE TELL ME AGAIN, WHAT ARE WE DOING WITH THIS INFORMATION? DO WE NEED TO CHANGE SOMETHING? WE'RE JUST DISCUSSING IT. WHAT ARE WE DOING EXACTLY? I, I THINK, I MEAN, WHERE I WOULD GO WITH THIS IS I WOULD PREFER STAFF TO RESEARCH THE, UH, THE DWAYNE ANY OF THE NEW TOWNS AND FIND, I KNOW THAT'S IN, I KNOW IT'S IN HABERSHAM. 'CAUSE I DID A COUPLE, COUPLE PROJECTS THERE IN, UH, NORTH CAROLINA. WE CAN RESEARCH IT, BUT THAT WOULD ONLY BE PROVIDING, SO, YOU KNOW, KIND OF THE INTENT WAS THIS IS, Y'ALL WOULD HAVE THE DISCUSSION OKAY. AND KIND OF IDENTIFY WHAT CHANGES Y'ALL WOULD BE MADE. AND THEN WE WOULD COORDINATE WITH, YOU KNOW, MR. HENDERSHOT AND YOUR, AND MR. PEARSON ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE WORDING FOR THE PROPOSED CHANGES. AND WE CAN, AGAIN, WE CAN RESEARCH THAT. BUT I WOULD SAY THAT'S WHERE, FROM STAFFS PERSPECTIVE, IS WE'RE SOMEWHAT LIMITED TO MORE OF A SUPPORT LEVEL. I, THAT'S ALL I'M AFTER IS JUST THAT ONE. I DON'T WANNA GET INTO ANY MORE OF IT. I JUST WANNA FIND OUT WHAT'S A GOOD RECESS. MM-HMM. , I'M SURE THEY RESEARCHED IT. AND I THINK THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE WE, I, THAT'S ALL I'D LOVE TO KEEP IT SIMPLE. LET PEOPLE FIGURE IT OUT AFTER THAT. BUT SAY WHATEVER THAT RECESS IS THAT THEY'RE USING, THAT'S THE MINIMUM. WE CALL IT OUT AND LET PEOPLE FIGURE IT OUT. YEAH. I THINK, I THINK THAT'S, UH, WE CAN, YOU KNOW, I CAN, I'LL, I'LL DO A SEARCH TOO JUST WHEN I GET HOME, SEE IF I CAN FIND, UH, I'M SURE THE DESIGN GUIDELINES ARE OUT THERE. UM, FOR A PLACE LIKE SEASIDE, IT'S PROBABLY IN THEIR CODE. UM, IT IS, IT'S, IT'S, UM, THE ONE I'D LOOK FOR IS MM-HMM. , THE ONE I REMEMBER CALLING OUT FOR WAS HALVERSON. OKAY. I MEAN, I'LL, I'LL DIG AROUND, UM, PERSONALLY, BUT, UM, I THINK THAT TO TO STAT'S POINT, UM, IT'LL BE UP TO US TO DETERMINE WORDING AND THEN THERE'LL BE THE WHOLE CONSIDERATION PROCESS. AND WE WE'RE MODIFYING AN ORDINANCE, I GUESS, RIGHT? YEAH. TO CHANGE IT, IT WOULD ACTUALLY WOULD HAVE TO DRAFT SOMETHING UP. IT WOULD HAVE TO BE APPROVED BY COUNSEL. CORRECT. SO, YEAH, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, AND JUST MAKE SURE IF WORDING WORDING CORRECTLY, WE WOULD NEED TO RECEIVE. SO THE RESULTING OF THIS DISCUSSION WOULD BE DIRECTIVE TOWARDS STAFF TO, YOU KNOW, CO COORDINATE WITH, YOU KNOW, MR. HENDERSHOT AND MR. PEARSON ABOUT DRAFTING SOME LANGUAGE AND THEN BRINGING THAT BACK BEFORE THE COMMISSION FOR THE CONSIDERATION FOR AMENDMENT TO THAT. AND THEN, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, WE WOULD, WE WOULD SHEPHERD THAT THROUGH THE PROCESS. BUT AGAIN, WE WOULD, WE WOULD JUST BE COORDINATING PUTTING IT INTO THE DESIGN LININGS, MAKING THAT CONSIDERATION, THEN BRINGING IT BACK FOR BEFORE THE COMMISSION. OKAY. SO WOULD THAT BE CORRECT? AND BASICALLY WE'RE, WE'RE, WE'RE SEEKING DIRECTION IS HOW Y'ALL WANT TO MOVE FORWARD. SO ORIGINAL GUIDELINES MM-HMM. I'D HAVE TO GO BACK AND DOUBLE CHECK. YEAH. THERE MAY BE A SECOND STEP AFTER THAT IF COUNCIL APPROVED IT. THAT IF ANY CHANGES TO THIS, IF COUNCIL APPROVED THE FIRST SET OF HISTORICAL GUIDELINES, THAT MAY NEED TO GO BACK TO COUNCIL AS WELL. MAY WE'LL RESEARCH THAT MAY BECAUSE OF THE WHOLE THING. UM, PERHAPS, YEAH. OKAY. IT WOULD BE LIKE A, AN ORDINANCE, PROBABLY ORDINANCE. AND THAT'S AN ATTACHMENT TO AN ORDINANCE. YEAH. AND THAT'S A, AS PART OF THAT WORKUP, WE WOULD HAVE THAT, AND THEN WE WOULD LAY OUT THE PROCESS, UM, WITH THAT. UM, SO ARE YOU LOOKING FOR US TO, UM, ACTUALLY TAKE THE DOCUMENT AND ADD THE WORDING IN THE DOCUMENT? IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE WE WOULD THAT, SO OUR, UNDER OUR, OUR INTENT WOULD BE TO SEEK DIRECTION FROM THE COMMISSION AS A WHOLE. BUT ULTIMATELY WE, WE WOULD BE LOOKING TO GET COORDINATION BETWEEN MOST BOTH MR. HENDERSHOT AND MR. PEARSON ON THE VERBIAGE, BECAUSE WE ARE NOT LICENSED ARCHITECTS. YEAH. YOU KNOW, WE HAVE SOME ARCHITECTURE EDUCATION, BUT NOWHERE NEAR TO THE LEVEL OF, YOU KNOW, EXPLANATION AND EXPERIENCE. I'LL, I'LL EMPHASIZE THAT WITH WHAT WAS DISCUSSED. YEAH. 'CAUSE WHERE I WAS GOING WITH THAT QUESTION THEN, IS IF WE WERE TO CHANGE THE WORDING OURSELVES, THEN IT WOULD ALMOST BE WE'D HAVE TO HAVE KIND OF A WORKING SESSION WHERE WE'D HAVE TO GET BACK TOGETHER TO DO THAT. CORRECT. BUT I LIKE THE, I LIKE THAT OPTION THAT YES. 'CAUSE THE ORIGINAL GUIDELINES WERE, WERE CONSIDERED BY THE COMMISSION KIND OF, IT WAS POSTED MEETINGS, BUT [00:30:01] IT WAS POSTED WITH OFFSITE MEETINGS. STAFF DID NOT HAVE ANY PLAY IN THOSE ORIGINAL GUIDELINES. I THINK ACTUALLY THEY WERE AT MY OFFICE. . YEAH. OKAY. YEAH. MS. DUDLEY. AND YES, THAT IS CORRECT. OKAY. I HAVE A QUESTION. UH, THEY DO HAVE TO GO TO COUNCIL. WOULD IT BE PRETTY MUCH PROFILE FORM FOR YEAH, WHATEVER. IT, IT WOULD JUST BE PART OF A CONSIDERATION TO AMENDMENT OF THE ORIGINAL ACTION THAT WAS TAKEN BY COUNSEL TO CO CODIFY IT. IT'S NOT GONNA BE ANYTHING. I, YOU NEVER KNOW THAT POINT. RIGHT? YOU NEVER KNOW. THERE, THERE COULD BE ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS. SO, YOU KNOW, IF WE, IF WE GET TO THAT POINT, MOST, YOU KNOW, WE WOULD MOST LIKELY HAVE, YOU KNOW, THE CHAIRPERSON, YOU KNOW, WE WILL REQUEST HIM AT THE MEETING, ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS, AND THEN AS NEEDED, YOU KNOW, ANYBODY BROUGHT IN BASED ON THERE BE DISCUSSIONS SUCH AS, AGAIN, MR. HENDRA OR MR. PEARSON SHOULD, SHOULD WE NEED TO GO TO THAT POINT WITH CITY COUNCIL AND SHOULD THEY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS. THANK YOU. SO, UM, ASSUMING YOU GET THROUGH ALL THAT, IS THERE A, UH, COMMUNICATION OF THIS CHANGE THAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN? BECAUSE, UM, YOU KNOW, WINDOWS IS ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT KEEPS COMING UP OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN. PEOPLE WANNA REPLACE WINDOWS AND THEY, YOU KNOW, GENERALLY WANNA REPLACE THE ONES THAT THEY CAN GET DOWN AT THE, UH, HARDWARE STORE, BRING IN AND, AND POP IN. AND, UM, AGAIN, MY PARADIGM IS, IS THAT CONTRACTORS THAT COME IN TO DO RESTORA OR RENOVATION WORK IN AN OLD HOUSE, THE FIRST THING THEY WANNA DO IS GET RID OF THE WINDOWS. UM, 'CAUSE IT'S NICE PROFIT FORM. WELL, WHATEVER THE REASON IS, THAT'S ALWAYS A RECOMMENDATION. UM, THEY'RE GONNA HAVE NO CLUE AS TO THIS REQUIREMENT THAT'S IN THE, UH, IN THE STANDARD. AND WE'RE GONNA END UP WITH SOMEBODY HERE IN FRONT OF US THAT HAS ALREADY HAD THE WINDOWS CHANGED THAT, UM, THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE, UM, C OF A AND THEY DIDN'T INSTALL 'EM CORRECTLY. UH, IS THERE SOMETHING WE CAN DO TO GET AHEAD OF THAT ONE THAT IS BUILT IN? YEAH. DON'T DISTRIBUTE THIS INFORMATION TO THE, THAT IS BUILT INTO THE PROCESS. SO IF WE DO HAVE TO GO TO THE CITY COUNCIL ROUTE AND IT BECOMES AN ORDINANCE CHANGE, THAT IS NOTIFICATION REQUIREMENTS WRITE OFF. SO WE'RE, WE'RE REQUIRED TO NOTIFY TO THE PUBLIC OF THIS PROPOSED CHANGE. WE CANNOT MAKE CHANGES TO THAT ORDINANCE UNTIL SAID. SO WE, YOU KNOW, WE GIVE PUBLIC NOTICE. WE DON'T, YOU KNOW, WE WOULDN'T NECESSARILY PUBLIC NOTICE SPECIFICALLY TO THE HISTORIC COMMISSION, BUT TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC THAT THIS, THIS IS BEING PROPOSED. UM, IF IT DOES NOT, AGAIN, IT WOULD HAVE TO RELATE. IF IT DID NOT GO TO CITY COUNCIL, WE WOULD HAVE TO DISCUSS INTERNALLY AGAIN, MAKING SURE THAT WE STILL FOLLOWED THOSE STEPS, THAT THERE WAS STILL A NOTICE. AND AGAIN, UNTIL SUCH ACTION WAS MADE, WE CANNOT ACTUALLY IN, YOU KNOW, MAKE A CHANGE. YOU KNOW. BUT IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE KNOW THAT IS MOVING FORWARD, IF SOMEONE COMING FORWARD, WE CERTAINLY MAKE, HEY, JUST AN F Y I, BUT WE CANNOT ACTUALLY ENFORCE THAT UNTIL THAT ACTION IS OCCURS. QUICK, QUICK QUESTION. IF I, IF I RENOVATE A HOUSE AND I'M PUTTING IN NEW WINDOWS, DOES THAT CLICK QUALIFY ME TO COME TO HERE? BECAUSE I'M NOT DOING EXACT, LIKE, TO, LIKE, JUST CURIOUS IF THAT WOULD, IF THAT WOULD KICK IN. TO BE HONEST, I THINK IT DEPENDS ON IF IT'S A CONTRIBUTING OR NON CONTRIBUT. I HEAR, SORRY. IS THAT BETTER? MUCH BETTER. SORRY. UM, I THINK IT DEPENDS IF IT'S CONTRIBUTING OR NON-CONTRIBUTING. AND I HAVE NOT COMMITTED EVERYTHING TO MEMORY YET, SO I WOULD HAVE TO LOOK THAT UP. SO, BUT THE WAY WE USUALLY EVALUATE IT IS LIKE, FOR, LIKE, RIGHT. SO THE CONFIGURATION THAT THE EX, IF THEY'RE CHANGING OUT THEIR WINDOWS, WE WANT IT TO BE LIKE FOR, LIKE, BUT IT'S ON A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE, NON-CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES. THEY JUST HAVE TO ABIDE BY THE DESIGN GUIDELINES. CORRECT. OKAY. SO, SO IF IT'S LIKE, FOR, LIKE, I KNOW THAT AT THE LAST MEETING THIS KIND OF CAME ABOUT BECAUSE WE HAD A PICTURE OF THE PERSON WHO HAD THE APPLICATION AND THE HOUSE NEXT DOOR HAD THE RECESSED WINDOWS. AND THAT KIND OF BROUGHT IT TO EVERYBODY'S ATTENTION. BUT, UM, IN SOME OF MY RESEARCH, I'VE NOTICED THAT SOME OF THE HOUSES HAVE WINDOWS THAT ARE FLUSH, SO THAT LIKE, FOR LIKE REPLACEMENT WOULD BE FLUSH. SO I'M NOT SURE, I ALMOST THINK YOU GUYS ALREADY OVERSEE IT THAT WAY. YOU KNOW, IF IT'S A CONTRIBUTING HOME AND IT'S A RECESSED WINDOW, I THINK THAT THEY, THAT WOULD BE DEFINITELY SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO PAY BETTER ATTENTION TO. AND MAYBE SHOWCASE THAT A LITTLE BIT MORE IN OUR STAFF REPORTS FOR YOU ON THESE CONTRIBUTING HOMES AND THE CONFIGURATION OF THE WINDOW. BE A LITTLE MORE DETAILED WITH THAT. I THINK THAT THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE COULD DO AS WELL. SO, SO IF IT'S A HOUSE IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, REGARDLESS OF IT'S CONTRIBUTING OR NOT CONTRIBUTING, AND SOMEBODY COMES IN FOR A PERMIT TO REPLACE WINDOWS, [00:35:01] UM, THAT'S GONNA TRIGGER TO COME BEFORE US. IS IT, IS IT NOT FOR CONTRIBUTING? I'M 99% SURE . 'CAUSE I DON'T HAVE IT ALL COMMITTED TO MEMORY. I THINK THE NON-CONTRIBUTING HOMES, THAT'S A STAFF LEVEL. OKAY. C O A. SO THAT THERE'S A, THAT WORRIES ME FROM THE STANDPOINT OF, UM, WHEN THE, UH, SURVEY CREW WENT THROUGH AND DID THEIR CONTRIBUTING OR NON-CONTRIBUTING. THERE ARE ACTUALLY PROPERTIES THAT ARE HISTORIC, BUT THEY'RE OUTSIDE THE AREA THAT THEY CONSIDERED, YOU KNOW, THEY WERE MAKE ACTUALLY MAKING RECOMMENDATIONS ABOUT YOU NEED TO SHRINK THE DIMENSIONS OF THIS THING. AND THEY MADE A RECOMMENDATION. THEY, THEY'VE ACTUALLY, LIKE FOR INSTANCE, UH, THE HOUSE YOU GUYS TALKED ABOUT TODAY IS, UH, NEITHER CONTRIBUTING OR NON-CONTRIBUTING BECAUSE IT WAS OUTSIDE THE, UM, RIGHT. UH, THE SURVEY. THE, THE SURVEY. SURVEY. RIGHT. AND SO WE HANDLE THOSE. IF IT SAYS OUTSIDE THE DISTRICT, WE, WE BRING THAT FOR A C O A. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. BECAUSE WE LET YOU DETERMINE, WE DON'T KNOW IF IT'S CONTRIBUTING OR NON-CONTRIBUTING. AND THEN WE JUST KIND OF LIST OUR FINDINGS. I KNOW ON THAT SURVEY, IT HAS A SECTION WHERE IT TALKS ABOUT, UM, ALL THE CHANGES THAT HAVE BEEN MADE, AND THAT'S WHY THEY SAID IT WAS OUTSIDE THE DISTRICT. BUT, UM, WE ERR ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION AND BRING THAT TO YOU GUYS ANYWAY. OKAY. IF I CAN REAL QUICK, UH, IF WE CAN, IF I DIGRESS A LITTLE BIT, CAN WE, WE NEED TO KIND OF GO BACK TOWARDS WHAT THE AGENDA ITEM IS FOR. WE'RE KIND OF GETTING OFF ON A TANGENT. AND THIS ISN'T ON THE AGENDA ITEM. SO, BUT THIS, THIS QUESTION IS . UM, SO THERE ARE VINYL WINDOWS THAT GOT INSTALLED OVER THE YEARS, ET CETERA. AND, UM, SOME OF THOSE PROBABLY WEREN'T THE HIGHEST QUALITY OR WHATEVER, AND, YOU KNOW, A FEW YEARS NOW THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO START REPLACING THOSE WINDOWS. SO IF THOSE VINYL WINDOWS WERE INSTALLED WITH TABS AND NOW IT'S TIME TO REPLACE THEM, WHY WOULD WE NOT APPLY THE SETBACK TO PUT IT BACK THE WAY IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE BEFORE? THAT'S MY THOUGHT TOO ABOUT THE, LIKE FOR, LIKE WHEN YOU SAY VINYL, IF IT WAS WRONG, WHEN YOU SAY VINYL, WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? PLASTIC WINDOWS THAT ARE BASICALLY PLASTIC. OKAY. BECAUSE ANDERSON WINDOWS ARE WOODEN WINDOWS. WELL, YOU, YOU, BUT THEY VINYL COVERING, YOU CAN GIVE VINYL CLAD, YOU CAN GIVE FULL VINYL, YOU CAN GET WOOD WINDOWS, YOU CAN, SO LIKE VINYL, YOU GET A ALUMINUM BIT OF WINDOWS, WOOD WINDOWS ARE THE VINYL ON TOP. SO THAT'S CONFUSING. MM-HMM. . YEAH. AND, UM, IF I CAN REAL QUICK, I'D, I'D LIKE SOME CLARIFICATION OF THAT QUESTION BECAUSE IF THEY'RE COMING IN, WHETHER THEY'RE REDOING THE WINDOWS OR IT'S A NEW FACING, THEY'RE STILL GONNA HAVE TO MEET WHATEVER ARCHITECTURAL REQUIREMENTS ARE IN PLACE. THERE IS GONNA BE NO OPTION OF A YES OR NO. OKAY. IF THIS BECOMES AN ACTIONABLE ITEM, EVERYBODY COMING THROUGH WILL BE REQUIRED TO MEET THAT REQUIREMENT. EVERYBODY. SO, SO THEN LIKE WHAT IT WOULD BE THE DESIGN BOX GUIDE, IT WILL BE IN THE DESIGN GUIDELINES. SO WHETHER THEY'RE REPLACING THE WINDOW OR IF IT'S A NEW BUILD, THEY WILL ALL BE REQUIRED TO FOLLOW THE SAME REQUIREMENT AS A HYPOTHETICAL. IF YOU STRUCK VINYL FROM APPROVED MATERIALS RIGHT. THEY COULD NOT COME AT, COME BACK AND, AND GET A VINYL WINDOW WITHOUT YOUR APPROVAL, I THINK IS YEAH. YEAH. IF THAT WAS, AND THAT'S NOT WHAT WAS BEING CONSIDERED HERE, I DON'T THINK. BUT IF THAT, THAT MATERIAL WAS STRUCK, RIGHT. IF THEY CAME BACK BEFORE US WITH A VINYL WINDOW, YOU COULD SAY NO. RIGHT. IF YOU ADD A DIMENSION TO THE SETBACK AND THEY DON'T MEET THAT, YOU COULD SAY NO. YEP. I THINK THAT'S WHAT IT'S, IF IT'S IN THE ORDINANCE, IT'S ACTIONABLE. OKAY. SO THE QUESTION REALLY HERE IS, IS THAT WHETHER IT'S VI IT DOESN'T MATTER REALLY WHAT, WHAT IT'S MADE OUT OF. RIGHT? THIS IS REALLY AN ISSUE WITH TABBED WINDOWS ABOUT WHAT NOW? SAY THAT AGAIN. WINDOWS THAT HAVE THESE TABS THAT PRESET. WELL, I, I DON'T EVEN THINK THAT, I THINK THAT'S A CONSTRUCTION METHOD. I THINK IF YOU MEET THE REQUIREMENT WITH A, UH, WITH A NAILING FIN, LIKE, LIKE RICK'S MENTIONED WITH A, UH, UH, MASONRY HOUSE, SAY, SAY A FULLY MASONRY HOUSE, WHICH THERE AREN'T A LOT OF 'EM, BUT SAY, SAY YOU DID, UM, AND YOU, YOU USED A, A NAILING FIN, UH, WINDOW AND YOUR DIMENSION WAS YEAH, OKAY. TWO INCH RECESS, YOU'D MEET IT EVEN WITH A NAILING FIN. SO I DON'T THINK THAT'S REALLY PART OF, I DON'T THINK, I DON'T THINK LIMITING THE WINDOW BASED ON A NAILING FIN IS REALLY THE, IT'S REALLY MORE ABOUT YOU GIVE THAT DIMENSION THAT THAT GOVERNS. THAT'S THE WAY I'VE SEEN IT CALLED OUT, IS IT'S GOT A DIMENSION FROM THE FACE OF THE TRIM BACK. AND YOU KNOW, AS I, YOU KNOW, I MENTIONED IF YOU GET A DEEP ENOUGH FRAME AND YOU, AND IT HAS A NAILING FIN, YOU CAN, IF, IF YOU HAVE THE WHEREWITHAL , YOU CAN MOVE THAT, THAT NAILING FIN HORIZONTALLY. THEY CAN, THEY'LL DO A CUSTOM LIKE THAT AND THEN THAT CAN SHIFT IT BACK IN THE WINDOW OR WHATEVER. RIGHT. SO [00:40:01] YOU CAN GET DIFFERENT CONFIGURATIONS. SO IT'S, IF THEY WANT TO MEET THE CONDITION, BUT STILL DO NAILING FIN AND THEY HAVE A WAY TO DO IT, AND THEY CAN SHOW YOU THAT THEY CAN DO IT, THEN THAT STILL MEETS THE REQUIREMENTS. NO. YEAH. GRANTED IT PROBABLY NOT WORTH IT. WE'RE, WE'RE AFTER AESTHETICS, NOT CONSTRUCTION METHODS. YEAH. I MEAN, I THINK WHEN WE HAD OURS AND WE HAD, OUR WINDOWS WERE MADE, WE DIDN'T JUST GO DOWN AND BUY SOME WINDOWS MM-HMM. , THEY WERE MADE. 'CAUSE THE HOUSE WAS OLD AND THE WINDOWS WERE NOT LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE'S. WE HAD THOSE WINDOWS WERE MADE FOR MY HOUSE, YOU KNOW? RIGHT. IT WASN'T JUST LIKE YOU GO AND BUY 'EM. YEAH. YOU KNOW, AND, AND THEY ARE WOOD, BUT THEY HAVE THE VINYL ON TOP, WHICH WAS FOR US, YOU KNOW, LESS WORK TO MAINTAIN AS FAR AS OUTSIDE. MM-HMM. . SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT DIMENSION. NOW, THIS IS ANOTHER HY HYPOTHETICAL. UM, LET'S SAY A HOUSE WAS BUILT 50 YEARS AGO OR SOMETHING WITH ALUMINUM WINDOWS. UH, WOULD THIS DIMENSION THING CREATE A SITUATION WHERE WE'RE ACQUIRING A CHANGE IN A HOUSE? I MEAN, IF THE HOUSE WAS BUILT WITH A SHALLOWER DIMENSION THAT WAS, ITS ORIGINAL, THE WAY IT WAS BUILT, AND NOW WE HAVE THIS DIMENSIONAL THING IN THERE, THEY WANNA REPLACE THEIR ALUMINUM WINDOWS. YEAH. TO YOUR POINT, THIS COULD BE, THIS COULD GET PRETTY, UM, EXTENSIVE AS FAR AS THE MODIFICATION TO THE LANGUAGE, I THINK, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IF YOU CHANGE IT TO ONE AND A HALF INCHES OR TWO INCHES OR FOUR INCHES, WHATEVER IT IS, UM, DOES THAT ONLY APPLY TO A, YOU KNOW, TRADITIONAL WOOD STRUCTURE VERSUS A MID-CENTURY BRICK RANCH? RIGHT. AND IT'S LIKE, WELL, THEN YOU'RE PARSING IT OUT. SO I THINK, I THINK WE WOULD'VE TO CONSIDER THAT WHEN WE'RE MODIFYING THE LANGUAGE. BUT, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT THAT'S A WHOLE NOTHER CAN OF WORMS. THE ALUMINUM WINDOWS. I THINK, I THINK YOU, YOU, IF YOU REALLY WANNA BE LIKE FOR LIKE, AND DO AN ALUMINUM WINDOW IN A MID-CENTURY HOUSE, THAT'S EXACTLY, UH, HIS, YOU KNOW, PER THE HISTORIC REQUIREMENTS, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO GET A, WHEN YOU WINDOW, UM, FABRICATOR TO, TO SORT OF MAKE THAT CUSTOM. IT'S HARD TO FIND. YOU CAN'T, LIKE, YOU WON'T FIND AN ANDERSON THAT MEETS THAT. NO, WE USE YEAH. ARAMCO OR THE OTHER YEAH. WE GET THE, WE GET THE PIN EXACTLY WHERE YOU WANT IT. RIGHT. SO HOW MANY MID-CENTURY HOUSES DO WE HAVE IN OUR HISTORIC DISTRICT? WELL, I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT. I THINK REALLY IT'S MORE ABOUT THAT IN THE FUTURE, SAY 10, 20 YEARS FROM NOW, THERE COULD BE A CONSIDERATION FOR A NEW HISTORIC DISTRICT, UM, OR AN EXPANDED HISTORIC DISTRICT THAT ENCOMPASSES SOME OF THE MID-CENTURY NEIGHBORHOODS THAT WERE BUILT IN THE SIXTIES, EARLY SIXTIES, LATE FIFTIES. UH, WITH THE ADVENT OF LIKE THE, THE MAN SPACECRAFT CENTER. I WOULD ARGUE THAT THAT'S HISTORIC IN THIS CITY. YEAH. UM, GIVEN THE, THE, THE MOVEMENT OF PEOPLE. RIGHT. SO, UM, I THINK THAT THE ORDINANCE HAS, YOU KNOW, I YOU COULD, YOU COULD CREATE A NEW ORDINANCE FOR THAT, THAT AREA. I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THAT COULD HAPPEN THERE. YEAH. AND IF, IF THERE REALLY WAS A CASE OF THAT IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, NOW IT WOULD COME BEFORE US AND MM-HMM. , YOU ARCHITECTS WOULD SAY, NO, THAT HOUSE WAS BUILT THAT WAY. RIGHT. IT HAPPENED TONIGHT. RIGHT. THE, THE BATTEN MM-HMM. . WE ALL THAT'S OKAY. IT'S, IT'S NOT CALLED OUT, BUT IT'S, THAT'S HOW YOU'D HANDLE IT. AND I, I RECALL THERE WAS A HOUSE CONSIDERED IN THIS, THIS, UH, COMMISSION YEARS AGO NOW, BUT IT WAS BUILT IN 1948 OR SO, AND IT WAS CONSIDERED A MODERN HOUSE AND IT HAD NARROW SIGHT LINES AND THINGS LIKE THAT. NOW WE WEREN'T, I DON'T THINK WE CONSIDERED WINDOWS, BUT WE CONSIDERED THE DOOR, AND THE DOOR CAME UP AND IT WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS DISCUSSED. AND, YOU KNOW, IT WAS LIKE, WELL, FOR THAT TYPE OF HOUSE, THAT STYLE OF HOUSE, THIS IS APPROPRIATE. SO THAT'S WITHIN YOUR PURVIEW. YEAH. UM, YOU KNOW, SO DO YOU NEED A, DO WE NEED AN ACTION ITEM FOR YOU, SIR? YES. WE, WE WOULD PREFER IT ON ACTION ITEM, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, SOMETHING MORE TOWARDS A DIRECTIVE, BUT I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE, JUST BASED ON, I WANNA MAKE SURE STAFF IS OF THE UNDERSTANDING. IT'S LESS OF A CONSTRUCTION STANDPOINT, MORE OF JUST A SINGULAR, YOU KNOW, AS PART OF THE, LIKE FOR LIKE, I MEAN, AND AS WE DISCUSSED A COUPLE MEETINGS AGO, IT COULD BE AS SIMPLE AS BEING MORE STRINGENT ON LIKE, TO, LIKE, WITH RESPECT TO THE INDIVIDUAL REQUEST THAT COMES BEFORE YOU IN THE FUTURE, OR IF IT'S JUST A SPECIFIC, YOU KNOW, EACH WINDOW IS GONNA HAVE THIS DEPTH. AND THEN AS MR. HENDERSHOT SAID, IT'S GONNA BE ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS OF YES, THIS IS GOING TO BE ALLOWED OR NO, AND THEN YOU APPROVE. BUT I, I JUST WANT TO, I WANTED TO MAKE SURE, IS THAT KIND OF THE CONSENSUS THAT STAFF IS UNDERSTANDING THAT? I BELIEVE SO. OKAY. [00:45:01] THE SIMPLER THE BETTER. AND WE JUST NEED TO STAY IN A, WE JUST NEED TO STAY IN AESTHETICS, NOT IN CONSTRUCTION. OKAY. SO YEAH, ANY, YOU KNOW, WE CAN GO EITHER WAY. JUST KIND OF GIVING THE DIRECTIVE ON WHAT, WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE? WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT AS FAR AS PEOPLE'S POCKETBOOKS? WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT WE'RE ALLOWING NOW AND WHAT WE'RE GOING TO INSIST ON IN THE FUTURE? DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY IDEA MONEY WISE? I MEAN, ARE WE FIXING TO OPEN UP A CAN OF WORMS HERE? I I MEAN, I, I CAN'T REALLY SPEAK TO THE EXACT COST. I THINK ANY, ANYTIME YOU GO CUSTOM, IT'S MORE EXPENSIVE, BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT WE'RE ACTUALLY DOING THAT. UM, WE'RE, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT BEING ABLE TO REVIEW A WINDOW, UH, FOR ITS MATERIALITY AND ITS, AND ITS AESTHETICS. AND IF IT DOESN'T MEET WHAT WE AS MORE WHAT YOU AS A BOARD CONSIDER, UH, UH, APPROPRIATE FOR THE DISTRICT RIGHT. CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS, THEN YOU CAN SAY IT'S NOT, UM, AND WE'RE GIVING, WE'RE GIVING YOU MORE, UH, MORE ABILITY WITH THE GUIDELINES TO TAILOR THAT, I GUESS IS THE BEST WAY TO PUT IT. YEAH. THERE'S A COUPLE HOUSES I'VE DONE IN THE DISTRICT, WE JUST CUT THE FINS OFF AND SEND 'EM BACK. YEAH. THEY'LL LET, THEY'LL DO ALL KINDS OF, THERE'S SOME OF 'EM HAVE DETACHABLE FINS. I MEAN, THERE'S WAYS TO DO IT. YEAH. YEAH. AND IF I UNDERSTOOD WHAT YOU SAID EARLY, THE EXAMPLE THAT WE GOT UP ON THE SCREEN RIGHT NOW IS A LOWER MODEL ANDERSON WINDOW THAT ACTUALLY GIVES YOU THE OPTION WITH THE TAB OR WITHOUT THE TAB. AND I'M ASSUMING THAT THERE ISN'T A SIGNIFICANT COST DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 'EM SINCE THEY'RE MAKING 'EM BOTH ANYWAY. YEAH. THERE'S NOT MUCH OF A COST DIFFERENCE. UM, AND AGAIN, YEAH, THESE ARE THE LOWEST LEVEL ANDERSON SINGLE HUNG, UH, WINDOWS AVAILABLE. AGAIN, ANDERSON'S NOT CHEAP, BUT HOW MUCH ARE, WOULD THIS LOWER COST? I, I DON'T HAVE THE EXACT NUMBER. IT DEPENDS ON THE SIZE AND, YOU KNOW, I'M JUST WONDERING WHAT YOU'RE ASKING. I DON'T THINK IT'S MUCH MORE ON THE EXTRUSION. I THINK IT'S MUCH CHEAPER WHEN YOU'RE SLAPPING UP A BUNCH OF HOUSES THAT ANYONE CAN PUT IN A WINDOW. , IT'S GOT TABS ON IT. RIGHT. YOU JUST LEVEL IT AND NAIL IT. AND THAT'S WHY YOU MAKE THE WINDOW BIGGER THAN MM-HMM. A HOLE BIGGER THAN THE WINDOW. YEAH. YOU DON'T HAVE TO PAY THAT CLOSE ATTENTION TO FRAMING EITHER. NO. AND IN A REMODEL WITH, EVEN WITH IT'S GOT THE FINS, YOU GOTTA TEAR OFF EVERYTHING AROUND IT TO GET TO THE FIN TO GET THE WINDOW OUT. RIGHT. . AND THEN THERE'S CANS OF WORMS IN THOSE YEAH. EVERY TIME YOU OPEN A WALL. RIGHT. BUT I'M JUST, I, THIS, THIS WINDOW'S ACTUALLY EASIER TO REPLACE THAN A FIN WINDOW. MM-HMM. , THERE'S A REASON WHY THEY DO 'EM THAT WAY. RIGHT. , THERE'S SNAKES IN THOSE WALLS. UM, SO I WOULD PROPOSE A MOTION, UH, ALONG THE LINES OF UMS, UH, STAFF TO PROPOSE, UH, CHANGE TO THE, UH, DESIGN STA DESIGN GUIDELINES TO, UH, REFLECT THE, UH, SETBACK DIMENSION OF THE WINDOWS, UM, IN COLLABORATION WITH THE, UH, TWO ARCHITECTS ON THE, UM, UH, COMMISSION. I THOUGHT THAT'S WHAT WE WERE NOT TALKING ABOUT IS DIMENSION. I THOUGHT WE WERE TALKING MORE ABOUT AESTHETICS. AESTHETICS. THAT IS, THAT IS THE DIMENSION BACK IS THE AESTHETIC. OKAY. SO REPEAT THAT. YOU'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT HOW THEY DO IT, YOU'RE JUST SAYING I I THINK WE'RE JUST, I WANT IT HERE. THAT'S IT. I GUESS I WOULD SAY THAT. SO SAY THAT AGAIN, DAVE. IT'S MORE OF A DIRECTIVE. LIKE IT'S NOT REALLY A MOTION. WE'RE NOT REALLY MAKING AN ACTION HERE. WE'RE JUST TELLING STAFF WE'D LIKE THEM TO DO SOME RESEARCH AND MAYBE SET UP A WORKSHOP OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT FOR MEMBERS OF THE BOARD, INCLUDING, YEAH, I'D LIKE THAT. I MEAN, AND I THINK THAT'S REALLY WHAT IT IS, MICHELLE. WE CAN, THEY CAN BE, IT CAN BE A MOTION TO DIRECT STAFF TO DO OKAY. YOU KNOW, BASED ON THAT ITEM. YES. AND THAT WOULD IN FACT BE PREFERABLE. YEAH. 'CAUSE I WAS TRYING TO MAKE SURE WE THEN VOTE ON SOMETHING MM-HMM. AND THEN THAT MAKES IT OFFICIAL. I GUESS WE'RE VOTING ON THE DIRECTIVE, SO, YES. SO, UH, I WANNA TRY TO REWORD IT AGAIN. . UM, I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION DIRECT TO DIRECT STAFF TO WORK WITH THE TWO ARCHITECTS ON THE COMMISSION TO, UM, REVISE THE, UH, DESIGN GUIDELINES TO REFLECT, REFLECT THE AESTHETIC [00:50:01] ASPECTS OF INSTALLING WINDOWS IN HISTORIC HOMES. UM, NOW I'M GONNA STOP RIGHT THERE. , I SECOND THAT MOTION. . READY? DOES THAT SOUND RIGHT? YEAH. I, I THINK IT WAS, YEAH. NO, I THINK THAT WORKS CLOSE ENOUGH. MM-HMM. , I THINK IT WORKS CLOSE. SO WE HAVE A MOTION ON THE FLOOR AND IT'S BEEN SECONDED BY, UH, RICK PEARSON. YES. THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE. AYE. AYE. THOSE OPPOSED, SAME SIGN. THAT MOTION PASSES UNANIMOUS UNANIMOUSLY. [6.A. Consider and take action on the Historic District meeting dates for 2024.] OKAY. THEN GOING TO THE OTHER BUSINESS, WHICH IS, UH, TAKE ACTION ON THE HISTORIC DISTRICT MEETING DATES FOR 2024. SO THIS IS JUST SOMETHING, UM, THAT WE DO PRETTY MUCH EVERY YEAR. I THINK SO, UH, THE HISTORIC COMMISSION MEETINGS ARE IN RED FOR NEXT YEAR. IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THEY REALLY INTERFERE WITH ANY OF THE HOLIDAYS, BUT WE JUST NEED YOU GUYS TO VOTE ON THIS AS THE OFFICIAL SCHEDULE. THOSE STATES LOOK FINE TO ME, EXCEPT I WON'T BE AVAILABLE FOR APRIL. BUT OTHER THAN THAT, THEY LOOK FINE TO ME. WHERE ARE YOU GOING? OH, NICE. UM, I MAKE THE MOTION TO APPROVE THE CALENDAR. SECOND. I'LL SECOND. YEAH. SO THERE'S A MOTION ON THE FLOOR TO ACCEPT THE, UM, CALENDAR AS PROPOSED. IT'S BEEN SECONDED. THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE. AYE. AYE. THOSE OPPOSED SAME SIGN HEARING. NO OBJECTION. THAT, UM, PASSAGE UNANIMOUSLY AS WELL. OKAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. CALL. THANK YOU, SIR. OOPS. UH OH. HE'S AFTER ME. . NO GOOD DEED. 'CAUSE I'M REWARDED. THANK YOU. I'VE GOT ONE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THAT'S OTHER THINGS. I DON'T GET NO USE. THAT'S RIGHT. THAT'S RIGHT. [7. Commissioners Comments] OKAY. SO THE, UH, NEXT ITEM IS, UH, COMMISSIONER'S, UH, COMMENTS. WE'LL START ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE, MS. JANINE. OH, WHAT? OKAY. WELL, I, UH, WAS IN MY GAR A GARAGE AND I FOUND A WHOLE BOX OF SOME OF THE FIRST COMMISSIONS STUFF . COOL. AND I WANNA KNOW IF I CAN BRING THEM TO YOU. WAIT A MINUTE. ARE THESE CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS? YES. . THEY ARE. SHOULDN'T BE LOCKED UP. AND I'M, I, I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT'S IN THE BOX, BUT THIS IS, YOU KNOW, I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHEN, BUT I, I, YOU KNOW, I, THEY'RE SITTING IN MY GARAGE JUST BEING DESTROYED AND I MEAN, I'D JUST ASSUME OKAY, YOU HAVE 'EM THEN ME AND SURE. OR EITHER THEY'RE GOING TO THE GARBAGE. I WOULD REALLY ENJOY LOOKING AT THAT. ACTUALLY. I CAN'T HEAR YOU. I WOULD REALLY ENJOY LOOKING THROUGH A BOX LIKE THAT. OKAY. SO, YEAH, THAT'D BE GREAT. GOOD. THEN I'LL GET THOSE OUT AND, UM, SEE IF I CAN GET SOMEBODY TO HELP ME. MAYBE THE PRESIDENT DOWN THERE. YEAH. TO DIG 'EM OUT FOR ME AND GET 'EM TO YOU. SO, UM, AND I GUESS EVERYTHING ELSE IS THAT WE'RE GONNA BE STARTING A NEW YEAR. I HOPE EVERYTHING'S GONNA BE GREAT. AND THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY. IT'S YOUR TURN. MR. ROWLAND, NO COMMENTS FROM MR. ROWLAND. UH, AS USUAL, NO DEEDED GOES UNREWARDED, BUT I DREW MR. HENDERSHOT AT THE, THIS , BUT, UH, LOOKING FORWARD TO FIXING OR, UH, REVISING THE, UH, THE WINDOW ORDINANCE WINDOW PART OF IT. YEAH, THAT WOULD BE, UH, MY COMMENT AS WELL IS THAT, UM, THIS SEEMS LIKE REALLY VALUABLE WORK, UM, FOR THE COMMISSION. SOMETHING THAT EASILY COULD BE, UH, MISSED. SO, UH, I THINK WE ADDED VALUE BY, UH, BRINGING UP THE DISCUSSION AND, UH, MOVING THIS ISSUE FORWARD. I AGREE. OTHER THAN THAT, I HAVE NO COMMENT. I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO THE WORKSHOP. MM-HMM. . UM, I'LL JUST, I GUESS I'LL JUST ADD LIKE, UM, YOU KNOW, I THINK WE PROBABLY, EVERYBODY HAS A COPY OF THE, UH, UH, FIELD GUIDE TO AMERICAN HOUSES. IT'D BE, I THINK IT'D BE REAL GOOD TO REVIEW THAT FROM TIME TO TIME, JUST SO THAT, UM, YOU KINDA GET A FEEL FOR WHAT RICK HAS BEEN TALKING ABOUT WITH THE SHADOW, THE SHADOW LINES AND THINGS. UM, [00:55:01] BECAUSE I THINK MORE THAN ANYTHING, WHEN WE APPROVE SOMETHING IS APPROPRIATE, THAT'S REALLY WHAT IT'S GETTING DOWN TO. DOES IT LOOK THE WAY IT SHOULD LOOK? AND THAT'LL, THAT'LL GIVE YOU A REAL GOOD WAY TO DO THAT. SO I JUST WANTED TO POINT THAT OUT. OH, I WANNA SAY ONE MORE THING. . IT'S NICE TO HAVE A, A NICE ALL OF US HERE. YEAH. FULL CO. MM-HMM. FULL HOUSE. YEAH. YEAH, IT IS. NICE. MADE IT INTERESTING. SO [8. Staff Comments ] GLAD TO SEE THAT. STAFF COMMENTS? UM, I HAVE JUST TWO COMMENTS. UH, WE DID ISSUE A, UM, STAFF LEVEL CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO, UH, 1 22 NORTH ILLINOIS. THEY HAD A DEAD TREE AND THAT'S ACTUALLY A COMMERCIAL PROPERTY, EVEN THOUGH IT'S A HOUSE. UM, IT'S IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. AND THE CONDITION WAS THEY NEEDED TO REPLACE THE TREE. SO THEY'LL BE WORKING WITH THE ARBORIST TO CHOOSE FROM THE APPROVED SPECIES LIST LIST. AND THEN JUST A FRIENDLY REMINDER THAT IF YOUR, UM, COMMISSION SEAT IS GOING TO EXPIRE THIS YEAR, I THINK Y'ALL MAY HAVE RECEIVED AN EMAIL ABOUT THAT, THAT TIME'S FAST APPROACHING. AND I JUST WANNA REMIND Y'ALL, OTHER THAN THAT, I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ELSE. COULD I, I JUST, ONE LAST THING. IF, IF STAFF COULD LOOK AT THE OLD, UH, THE OLD HISTORIC, UH, DOCUMENTS, THE, THE, UH, DESIGN STANDARDS, MY GUESS IT, THAT RULE ABOUT THE WINDOWS IS PROBABLY IN THERE. 'CAUSE I, I JUST CAN'T FIND MY STUFF 'CAUSE I LOST MY, ON A DIFFERENT COMPUTER. BUT ALL THE ONES THAT I'VE DONE, I'VE ALWAYS HAD THAT IN THERE AND I KNOW, I KNOW WHERE THAT CAME FROM. OKAY. SO IT MAY BE IN THERE AND JUST GOT LOST IN TRANSLATION. OKAY. I'LL LOOK THROUGH, PLEASE. I'LL LOOK THROUGH ALL OF THAT. I APPRECIATE THAT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. NO PROBLEM. OKAY, SO WE'VE REACHED THE, UH, LAST, UH, UH, AGENDA ITEM, WHICH IS ADJOURNMENT. SO I'M GONNA CLOSE THE MEETING AT 6 57 AND I WISH EVERYBODY A GOOD EVENING. OKAY. THANK YOU, SIR. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.