[00:00:03]
[Work Session on August 22, 2023]
ON AUGUST 22ND, 2023 AT 5:00 PM ROLL.WE'LL START WITH, UH, PUBLIC COMMENTS NOW.
DIDN'T THINK SO, BUT IT'S ON THE AGENDA.
UH, WE'LL MOVE ON TO THE PRESENTATION DISCUSSION REGARDING PROPOSED ENGINEERING FEES.
IF WE HAVE TIME BEFORE SIX O'CLOCK, I'LL GIVE Y'ALL ANOTHER, ANOTHER CHANCE TO SPEAK UP.
UM, IT'S BEEN A WHILE SINCE I'VE PRESENTED, SO THIS IS A NEW MOUSE OR CLICKER HERE, SO HOPEFULLY I DON'T MESS IT UP.
SO TONIGHT WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT, UM, CHANGES TO PROPOSED CHANGES TO THE ENGINEERING SERVICES AND CONSTRUCTION INSPECTION FEES.
AND THEN I WANT TO VERY, VERY BRIEFLY TALK ABOUT SOME, UH, PROPOSED CHANGES TO PLANNING AND BUILDING FEES.
UH, I KNOW THAT'S SOMETHING THAT Y'ALL HAD TALKED ABOUT US UPDATING IN BUDGET, UH, SESSIONS.
UH, WE'VE STARTED THAT AND I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE I'M GOING DOWN THE SAME PATH.
Y'ALL, Y'ALL WANT IT ON? UM, 'CAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF FEES ASSOCIATED WITH THOSE TWO DEPARTMENTS.
ALRIGHT, SO FOR ENGINEERING CON, UH, SERVICES, CONSTRUCTION INSPECTION FEE, WE ESTABLISHED IT IN 2016.
IT WAS BASED OFF OF PERCENT CONSTRUCTION OF PUBLIC INFRASTRUCTURE, AND IT WAS ESTABLISHED AT 2% OF THAT COST AT THAT TIME, MEANING IT WAS SUPPOSED TO COVER STAFF TIME, VEHICLES PLAN REVIEW, TESTING, E EVERYTHING ASSOCIATED WITH IT.
WE REASSESSED IN 2018 AND INCREASED THOSE FEES TO TWO AND A HALF PERCENT ON SEPTEMBER 1ST.
AND BASICALLY WHAT THAT DOES IS IT PROHIBITS US USING PERCENT OF CONSTRUCTION TO DETERMINE FEES.
UM, SO IT MEANS THAT, THAT WE HAVE TO GO BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD FOR ENGINEERING SERVICE AND CONSTRUCTION INSPECTION FEES.
SO I REALLY KIND OF WENT BACK TO THE VERY BEGINNING, LOOKED AT MY DEPARTMENT OR OR ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT, UH, AS A STANDALONE.
FIRST ABOUT 42% OF MY, UH, PERSONNEL BUDGET IS DEDICATED TO NEW PUBLIC INFRASTRUCTURE, UM, PROJECTS.
THAT'S ABOUT 13,000 MAN HOURS A YEAR.
UM, TO COVER ALL OF MY COSTS I NEED TO, FOR ENGINEERING, WE NEED TO BE BRINGING IN ABOUT A MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR IN, IN FEES, BUT THAT DOESN'T INCLUDE THE OTHER DEPARTMENTS THAT ARE ASSOCIATED.
IT DOESN'T INCLUDE OUR OVERHEAD OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
WHEN YOU START LOOKING AT ALL OF THOSE OTHER ADDED COMPONENTS, WE REALLY SHOULD BE BRINGING IN SOMEWHERE AROUND 1.3 MILLION A YEAR TO COVER THOSE COSTS.
YOU'RE SAYING 1.3 TO COVER THE NON C I P COST? YES, SIR.
SO TO BUILD THIS, I HAD TO MAKE SOME ASSUMPTIONS OBVIOUSLY TO, TO KIND OF GET WHAT THOSE FEES WOULD NEED TO BE.
SO I BACKED UP AND LOOKED AT THE LAST FOUR YEARS AND THE SLIDES ON THE LEFT ARE THE NEW, UH, SUBMITTALS VERSUS CONSTRUCTION STARTS FOR EACH GIVEN YEAR.
THE SLIDE ON THE RIGHT OR THE GREEN IS THE FEES COLLECTED FOR THAT PHYSICAL YEAR.
YOU CAN KIND OF SEE NEW STARTS, MEANING NEW PROJECTS THAT ARE COMING IN, EXCUSE ME, COMING IN THE DOOR, HAVE BEEN OVER 20 PROJECTS A YEAR FOR THE LAST FOUR YEARS.
EVEN C O V I D YEAR, WE STILL HAD AN INCREDIBLY HIGH AMOUNT OF NEW PROJECTS COMING IN 2022 THOUGH IT WAS, IT WAS A
UH, BUT CONSTRUCTION STARTS, WERE FLIRTING WITH 20, UH, A YEAR.
IF YOU TAKE OUT THE COVID YEAR, IF YOU LOOK AT OUR FEES, REMEMBER I SAID 1.3 IS WHAT WE NEED TO KIND OF COVER OUR COSTS.
THAT THAT FEE HAS BEEN GROWING EACH YEAR.
THIS YEAR WE STILL HAVE A MONTH LEFT.
WE'LL PROBABLY BE AT THAT 1.3 FEE, UH, TO COVER EVERYTHING.
AGAIN, HOW DO I GET TO WHAT I'M PROPOSING? AND I WENT AND SAID, WELL, WHEN I GOT, I FOLLOWED A PROJECT ALL THE WAY THROUGH AND THERE'S ABOUT 15 DIFFERENT STAFF PEOPLE THAT, THAT TOUCH ANY GIVEN PUBLIC INFRASTRUCTURE PROJECT.
THERE'S ALSO, UM, I SAID, HOW MANY CAN WE REALISTICALLY EXPECT TO COME IN A YEAR? I LOOKED AT THE LAST FOUR YEARS.
24 SEEMS LIKE A GOOD AVERAGE NUMBER FOR THAT TO BE COMING IN.
[00:05:01]
LOOKED AT THE PAST FOUR YEARS, PLANS THAT WERE APPROVED.HOW MANY PLAN REVIEWS CYCLES DID IT TAKE? WHAT WAS THE AVERAGE AMOUNT OF CONSTRUCTION? SO IRONICALLY IT WAS FOUR PLAN REVIEWS PER PROJECT AND ABOUT FOUR MONTHS PER PROJECT ON AVERAGE.
SO AGAIN, ON AVERAGE, TAKING THE 15 PEOPLE 24 PROJECTS, THE FOUR AND FOUR, IT'S ABOUT 700 MAN HOURS, UH, FOR ANY GIVEN PROJECT AND ABOUT 7,000 IN SUPPLIES, IT'S ABOUT.
AND, AND SO I BROKE THAT UP INTO AN $8,500 PER PLAN REVIEW FEE AND A $5,000 PER MONTH OF CONSTRUCTION FEE.
SO THAT IS ON AVERAGE, THERE'LL BE SOME MONTHS THAT WE'RE MAKING A LITTLE BIT OF MONEY AND SOME MONTHS THAT WE'RE LOSING A LITTLE BIT OF MONEY.
BUT ON AVERAGE, IT, IT WORKS OUT TO THAT.
DOES, DOES, DOES THAT INCLUDE AMORTIZATION OF VEHICLES ALSO? IT INCLUDES THE VEHICLES.
SO ON AVERAGE IT TAKES 700 MAN HOURS AND $7,000 IN SUPPLIES? YES SIR.
OKAY, SO IT'S $8,500 PER PLAN.
SO THAT'S LIKE AN UPFRONT $8,500.
AND THEN AN ADDITIONAL $5,000 PER MONTH.
AND HOW MANY MONTHS WERE WE AVERAGING ON THE TYPICAL ONE? FOUR, FOUR MONTHS? FOUR.
SO JUST 28,500 MINUS THE SEVEN, THAT 55 ROUGHLY.
SO $30 AN HOUR IS OUR STAFF TIME.
WELL, IT, IT WILL ALWAYS VARY A LITTLE BIT, RIGHT? BUT DOESN'T ALWAYS 30 AN HOUR SOUND REALLY LIGHT.
IT SOUNDS LIGHT, UH, BUT IT ALSO SOUNDS PRETTY, UM, IT, IT SOUNDS IN THE BALLPARK.
UM, YOU HAVE ADMIN TIME IN THERE, YOU HAVE JUNIOR INSPECTOR TIME IN THERE.
YOU HAVE THAT TYPE OF STUFF THAT THAT BRINGS THOSE HOURLY RATES A LITTLE BIT LOWER THAN A PROFESSIONAL.
YEAH, IT SHOULD BE A LOT HIGHER BECAUSE IF YOU BUCKS AN HOUR BECAUSE 30 BUCKS AN HOUR, THAT WOULD EQUATE TO A PERSON OF 60 GRAND A YEAR.
BUT I WAS SAY PLUS BENEFITS PLUS OVERHEAD, PLUS WE PAY A LOT OF PEOPLE MORE THAN $60,000 A YEAR.
AND THEN BENEFITS CAN BE ANOTHER 1.5, 1.4 ON TOP OF IT.
IT JUST, IT JUST APPEARS THAT'S LIGHT.
SO IT WASN'T JUST WHILE WE WAS MAKING THAT
SO WE, WE CAN DEFINITELY GO BACK AND, AND CLEAN THAT UP AND GET YOU THAT BREAKDOWN.
UM, AND I, I ACTUALLY HAVE IT.
I JUST DIDN'T BRING IT WITH YEAH, I JUST DIDN IT'S ONE OF THOSE THINGS LIKE I DON'T WANT, I MEAN, I'M NOT LOOKING TO BE LIKE MAKING MONEY ON THIS THING, BUT I'M, I'M ALSO REALLY DON'T WANT THE GENERAL TAXPAYERS SUPPORTING THIS, RIGHT? I MEAN, IT NEEDS TO BE THE DEVELOPERS NEED TO PAY FOR THE SERVICE AND, AND ROUGHLY BREAK EVEN.
OR AT LEAST WE NOT, WE DON'T GO IN THE HOLE ON IT.
AND SO THAT'S REALLY WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR.
UH, SO LET'S, LET'S TRY TO TIGHTEN UP THE NUMBER A LITTLE BIT.
AND, AND AGAIN, THE 1.3 NUMBER WAS THE ONE THAT, THAT WAS KIND OF THE, THE BAR.
AND THEN WE'RE WORKING IN, YOU HAVE THE 1.3 NUMBER, YOU HAVE THE AVERAGE NUMBER THAT'S COMING IN.
THE AVERAGE PLAN REVIEWS THE AVERAGE MONTHS OF CONSTRUCTION.
SO IT'S A LOT OF FACTORS THAT WE WERE GOING IN AND TRYING TO WORK IT.
WOULDN'T THE 1.3 BE VARIABLE BASED ON HOW MANY, IT'S ALWAYS GONNA BE A LITTLE VARIABLE, RIGHT? YES, SIR.
TO YOUR, GO BACK TO YOUR GRAPHIC OF THE PROJECTS.
I THINK WE'RE GO, I MEAN, NEW HOME SALES AREN'T DYING OFF FROM WHAT I CAN SEE.
SO, SO ONE WE'RE SEE MORE NEW HOME CELLS.
SO THAT'S WHAT I'M NOW YOU THINK, WELL THESE AREN'T HOMES, RIGHT? THESE ARE BIG PROJECTS.
UM, AND THEN ONE THING THAT I, I PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE SAID THAT, THAT I DIDN'T AT THE BEGINNING, THE WAY WE CURRENTLY COLLECT THOSE FEES IS WE COLLECT THEM PRIOR TO THE PRE-CON.
SO AS PERCENT CONSTRUCTION, WE DO ALL THE PLAN REVIEWS.
UH, BEFORE ANY FEES ARE COLLECTED, WE ALLOW THE DEVELOPER TO BID THE PROJECT OUT TO GET A MORE ACCURATE COST OF CONSTRUCTION.
WE ASSESS THE FEE AND WE DON'T SCHEDULE THE PRECON UNTIL THE FEE IS PAID.
SO THAT'S WHY SOME OF THESE SEEM TO LAG.
IT'S, IT'S BECAUSE OF THAT YOU COULD POTENTIALLY HAVE MONEY SPENT IN ONE PHYSICAL YEAR THAT YOU DIDN'T COLLECT UNTIL THE NEXT PHYSICAL YEAR.
SO THE $8,500 FEE, UNDERSTANDING THAT, WE'LL DOUBLE CHECK
[00:10:01]
THAT NUMBER, BUT THE $8,500 FEE COVERS ENGINEERING PLANNING, PUBLIC WORKS, FARM MARSHAL, ABOUT 90 HOURS OF STAFF TIME, UH, PER REVIEW.IT COVERS OUR, OUR MEETING EXPENSES, OUR TRAINING, OUR SOFTWARE OFFICE SUPPLIES.
THE 5,000 COVERS THE SAME THING.
UM, WITH OUR TESTING, OUR G I S THE SAME ENGINEERING INSPECTORS, PLANNING PUBLIC WORKS, FIRE MARSHAL ON WALKTHROUGHS.
UM, THAT'S ABOUT 86 HOURS ON AVERAGE.
AND AGAIN, IT'S AVERAGE, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE MORE HOURS IN THE MONTH, ONE MORE HOURS IN THE LAST MONTH, UM, LESS IN THE MIDDLE.
SO IF YOU JUST SAID BEST CASE SCENARIO, ABSOLUTELY BEST CASE SCENARIO, IN THE EIGHT AND A HALF YEARS I'VE BEEN HERE, I DON'T THINK WE'VE HAD ANY PLANS APPROVED IN, IN TWO REVIEWS.
AND THEN IF IT'S JUST A WATER MAINTENANCE EXTENSION, YOU CAN KNOCK THAT OUT IN, IN 30 DAYS.
SO BEST CASE SCENARIO WOULD BE ABOUT $22,000 IN COST TO THE CITY.
UM, SO I WENT AND LOOKED AT HOW WE COLLECTED FEES PER PROJECT OVER THE LAST FOUR YEARS.
SO THE GREEN IS TOTAL PROJECTS THAT WE COLLECTED, UM, FEES ON.
AND THEN THE YELLOW ARE THE PROJECTS THAT WERE, WE COLLECTED LESS THAN $22,000 ON.
SO YOU CAN KIND OF SEE IT'S SOMEWHERE IN THAT THIRD TO MAYBE 40% ON A, ON A FOUR YEAR AVERAGE.
UM, OH, ACTUALLY I WROTE IT DOWN 32%.
UM, OF THE PROJECTS OVER THE LAST FOUR YEARS HAD FEES ASSESSED OF LESS THAN 22,000.
THOSE PROJECTS WERE ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY UTILITY MAIN EXTENSIONS.
THERE WERE A COUPLE OF SMALLER SUBDIVISION, UM, THAT FELL INTO THAT GROUP.
AND IT'S USUALLY LIKE THE, UM, LESS THAN 24 LOTS.
BEACON ISLAND WOULD FALL INTO THAT RANGE BECAUSE BEACON ISLAND IS A LITTLE ODD WHERE IT WAS PLATTED, THE LOTS ARE THERE AND THEY GO BACK IN AND THEY BASICALLY ARE DOING UTILITY EXTENSIONS WITH THAT.
SO, SO THAT'S A LITTLE BIT OF A, OF A DIFFERENT ANIMAL THERE.
BUT FOR THE MOST PART, UTILITY EXTENSIONS, SMALL LOTS DIVISIONS.
SO WITH THAT IN MIND, I'M PROPOSING TWO, UH, A TWO TIER FEE.
BASICALLY WHAT I'M PROPOSING, UH, A FEE BASED OFF THE NUMBER OF PLAN SUBMITTALS AND THE, AND THE MONTHS OF CONSTRUCTION OR THE SIZE OF THE PROJECT.
SO ANYTHING 25 LOTS OR BIGGER WOULD BE THE $8,500 PER PLAN REVIEW, THE $5,000 A MONTH PER CONSTRUCTION COSTS OR CONSTRUCTION FEE.
UH, WE WOULD ASSESS, STILL CONTINUE TO ASSESS LIKE WE ARE RIGHT NOW WHERE WE HAVE THE FEES, UM, PLANS ARE APPROVED SO WE CAN ASSESS THE ACTUAL NUMBER AT THE END OF THE, PRIOR TO THE PRE-CONSTRUCTION, EXCUSE ME.
AND THEN WE WOULD PROBABLY DO SOME TYPE OF CLEANUP.
UM, AT THE END OF THE CONSTRUCTION PROJECT FOR THOSE FEES PROJECTS, LESS THAN 25 LOTS, JUST A FLAT FEE OF $7,500 WE ARE REQUIRED TO, ONE OF THE NEW LAWS THAT'S GOING TO GO INTO EFFECT REQUIRES US TO DO A PUBLIC HEARING EVERY TIME THESE RATES ARE CHANGED AT LEAST EVERY 10 YEARS.
EVEN IF YOU DON'T CHANGE THE RATE, YOU STILL HAVE TO DO A PUBLIC HEARING EVERY 10 YEARS.
ONE WAY TO MAYBE PREVENT THAT IS TO DO AN INFLATION ADJUSTMENT.
UM, SO YOU'RE, YOU'RE ONLY HAVING TO DO IT EVERY 10 YEARS.
I THINK THAT WORKS WELL IN THIS WITH, IF YOU'VE GOT CONSTANT GROWTH, BUT IF YOU HAVE A BIG BOOM OR YOU HAVE A A BIG DRY SPELL IT, IT DOESN'T WORK GOOD 'CAUSE YOU'RE EITHER MAKING A LOT OF MONEY IF YOU HAVE A LOT MORE PROJECTS COMING IN OR YOU'RE LOSING MONEY IF YOU DON'T HAVE ENOUGH.
'CAUSE AGAIN, THE FEE IS BASED OFF ASSUMING WE'RE GETTING 24 PROJECTS A YEAR.
AND JUST TO, JUST TO REVISIT THAT, UM, CITY MANAGERS POINTED SOMETHING OUT.
SO IF YOU DO 28.5 TIMES 24 PROJECTS, THAT DOESN'T EQUAL $1.3 MILLION, RIGHT? NO, IT DOESN'T.
WE WE ARE NOT, WE'RE NOT, WE'RE GETTING CLOSE, BUT WE'RE NOT ASSESSING THE FULL AMOUNT SO THAT IT GETS TO ABOUT HALF.
SO I GUESS MY, MY COMMENTS WOULD BE IF WE KNOW THE NUMBERS 1.3 OR 1.5 OR WHATEVER WE THINK IT IS, LET'S GO RECOUP THE WHOLE AMOUNT.
IT'S THE, IT'S THE 32% THAT ARE SMALLER DEVELOPMENT.
THAT'S WHY I'M SHOWING IT LIKE THIS, IT, BECAUSE IF WE'RE, YOU KNOW, THE, THE GUY THAT'S DEVELOPING FIVE LOTS, IF
[00:15:01]
HE HAD TO PAY $22,000 VERSUS MAYBE THE REALISTICALLY THE THREE GRAND, IT WOULD COST HIM TO GET THE WATER GRANT, THE, THE WATER LINE THERE, THEN HE DOESN'T DEVELOP MORE TIMES THAN NOT.SO, SO TOTALLY AGREE WITH WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
IT WAS A JUDGMENT CALL ON MY PART TO JUST KIND OF PICK A NUMBER.
I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE I I THEN I GUESS LET'S SEE HOW WE'RE GOING TO COVER THE, THE WHOLE FEE.
AND THEN I WOULD ALSO PROBABLY SAY I LIKE THE IDEA OF INFLATION ADJUSTING IT.
I WOULDN'T SET THE INFLATION NUMBER AT 3.5, I'D PROBABLY JUST SET IT AT C C P I OR SOMETHING, RIGHT? YEAH.
AND JUST TAKE THE GUESSWORK OUT OF IT COMPLETELY, UM, TO PROTECT OURSELVES.
SO I, I WENT AND LOOKED AT THE CURRENT PROJECTS OVER THE LAST TWO YEARS THAT HAVE BEEN COMPLETED TO SEE HOW, WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING FOR A FEE VERSUS WHAT WE ACTUALLY COLLECTED, HOW THEY WOULD MATCH UP.
SO IN 2022 WE HAD 18 PROJECTS, COMPLETE CONSTRUCTION OF THOSE 18 PROJECTS.
UM, IT WAS, THOSE PROJECTS WERE ASSESSED ABOUT A MILLION DOLLARS IN COST.
UM, WE WOULD HAVE COLLECTED UNDER THE NEW RATE ABOUT $12,000 LESS SO JUST UNDER A MILLION IN 2023.
WE HAVE ABOUT 10 PROJECTS THAT, UM, I'M SORRY, LET ME BACK UP.
YOU CAN KIND OF SEE THE YELLOW LINE JUMPS WAY UP.
THAT IS SAMARA PHASE ONE AND IRVIN PHASE ONE EXTENSION.
UM, YOU KNOW, THAT CAN BE ATTRIBUTED TO A, A HIGHER BID.
THEY JUST DIDN'T GET GOOD BIDS AND WE'RE, WE'RE BASING OUR FEES OFF OF, UM, WHAT, YOU KNOW, A TIME, BASICALLY A NUMBER OF REVIEWS AND TIME.
SO WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE TILL THE BLUE COLOR BENEATH IT, THAT WAS BASED OFF THE ACTUAL NUMBER OF REVIEWS AND THE ACTUAL MONTHS OF CONSTRUCTION.
SO SAME THING WHEN YOU LOOK AT IN 2023, ALTHOUGH IT'S MUCH MORE PRONOUNCED IN TRICAL SECTION THREE, THE COST OF CONSTRUCTION WAS MUCH, MUCH HIGHER.
UM, SO THAT, THAT WOULD'VE BEEN A LOWER VOLUME.
IT WOULD HAVE, IT'S ALMOST $200,000 DIFFERENCE IN FEES THERE.
BUT LIKE I SAID, THE BULK OF THAT IS THAT ONE PROJECT.
UM, IF YOU JUST KIND OF, I JUST PICKED A HANDFUL OF PROJECTS OVER THE LAST FOUR YEARS TO SEE HOW THEY WOULD'VE COMPARED, UH, TRICAL PHASE ONE.
WE ASSESSED $231,000 BACK IN JULY ON THAT, IF YOU LOOKED AT THE NUMBER OF PLAN REVIEWS AND THE MONTHS OF CONSTRUCTION, IT WOULD'VE BEEN CLOSER TO 180,000.
SAME THING WITH MULDOON AND, AND BEACON ISLAND.
WE WOULD'VE ASSESSED THE MINIMUM AMOUNTS THERE.
UM, YOU CAN KIND OF SEE BOTH OF THE, I PUT BOTH OF THOSE PROJECTS UP HERE FOR A REASON.
THEY WERE BOTH A LITTLE STAKE BIT AND TOOK MUCH, MUCH LONGER THAN THEY SHOULD HAVE.
UM, SOME DO, UH, I KNOW IN THE BEACON ISLAND EXAMPLE, I BELIEVE THEY ENDED UP FIRING THEIR CONTRACTOR.
SO, YOU KNOW, THOSE THINGS HAPPENED AND, AND THERE'S NOT A WAY FOR US TO COLLECT ANY ADDITIONAL FEES IF WE GO WITH THE $7,500 FEE.
YOU'RE SAYING SNAKE, THAT THAT'S BECAUSE OF THEIR OWN CHOOSING TO CHOOSE THE RIGHT CONTRACTOR TO, TO SOME DEGREE, YES SIR.
TAXPAYER OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO WORRY ABOUT, IN MY OPINION.
I I, AND I THINK IF THEY WERE HERE, THEY WOULD TELL YOU, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE, YOU'RE EXACTLY RIGHT.
BUT THEN SHOULD I BE CHARGED $5,000 A MONTH IF I'M IN THE PROCESS OF REBIDDING THAT JOB? BUT THAT'S THEIR OWN COVER MORE.
THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE IT WOULD COST.
AGAIN, I'M NOT ANTI DEVELOPER, BUT I'M, I'M AGAINST TAXPAYERS HAVING TO PAY THEIR MESSAGE.
AND, AND I I DO UNDERSTAND THAT.
AND, AND I, I REALLY APPRECIATE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
AND I, THE POINT I WAS TRYING TO MAKE IS, YOU KNOW, IF THEY'RE REBIDDING, MY 10 HOURS A WEEK ON THAT SITE IS REALISTICALLY 30 MINUTES A DAY DRIVING THROUGH.
IT'S A, IT'S MUCH LESS, UM, COST TO THE, TO THE CITY.
SO LIKE, SO LIKE ON THE PETAL EXAMPLE, SO WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT AN AVERAGE REVIEW FEE OF 8,500.
AND THEN 5,000 A MONTH FOR AN AVERAGE OF FOUR MONTHS OF CONSTRUCTION.
SO HOW DO YOU GET TO 180,000 ON PETAL? 'CAUSE THE CONSTRUCTION TIME WENT YES, SIR.
SO THAT WAS A BIG, THAT WAS A, IT WAS A BIG PHASE, REMEMBER IT WAS A BIG PHASE.
PETAL HAD A WAITING LIST OF A YEAR AND A, I KNOW PETAL HAD A WAITING LIST OF LIKE A YEAR AND A HALF.
'CAUSE I HAD HOMEOWNERS THAT WERE SELLING THEIR HOUSES AND WERE TELLING ME THAT THEY WERE ON THE WAITING LIST FOR OVER A YEAR AND A HALF.
BUT YEAH, SO, UM, COASTAL POINT WAS THE LAST EXAMPLE.
IT WOULD'VE BEEN ABOUT $18,000 LESS THAT
[00:20:01]
THE DEVELOPER WOULD'VE PAID BASED OFF OF THE RATES BEING PROPOSED.UM, IN GENERAL, PROPOSED FEES ARE LOWER THAN COLLECTED IN PREVIOUS YEARS.
ONE OF THE, THE THINGS THAT WE STRUGGLE WITH, AND I'M SURE Y'ALL AS COUNSEL HEAR ABOUT ALL THE TIME, IS, MAN, IT TAKES FOREVER TO GET STUFF THROUGH.
AND, AND JUST LIKE COUNCILMAN SAUNDERS SAID, SOME OF THAT IS SELF-INFLICTED, SOME OF IT IS STAFF.
UM, I THINK A LOT MORE OF IT IS SELF-INFLICTED THAN STAFF PERSONALLY.
BUT IF YOU HAVE THESE FEES IN PLACE, YOU GUARANTEE A LITTLE BIT MORE EFFICIENCY.
AND IT PUTS PRESSURE ON MY TEAM THEN TO ENSURE THAT WE'RE DOING A QUALITY REVIEW.
BUT WHAT IT, WHAT IT CHANGES IS NOT GETTING SIX SETS OF PLANS IN AT THE SAME TIME.
WHERE WHEN YOU MAKE A COMMENT ON SECTION ONE, YOU'VE GOT TO CARRY THAT COMMENT THROUGH ALL SIX OF THOSE PROJECTS.
AND THEN YOU'VE, YOU'VE DOUBLED YOUR REVIEW EACH TIME BECAUSE YOU'RE DOING IT TO, OR YOU'VE WHAT TIME? SIX EACH TIME.
'CAUSE YOU'VE GOTTA MAKE SURE IT'S SHOWN IN ALL SIX OF THOSE SECTIONS.
SO IT MAKES THEM BE A LITTLE BIT SMARTER IN HOW THEY WANNA SUBMIT STUFF TO US.
IT MAKES THEM ALSO LOOK AT THEIR CONSTRUCTION SCHEDULING A LITTLE BIT CLOSER TO ENSURE THEY DON'T HAVE A LOT OF PROJECTS STACKING UP ON TOP OF EACH OTHER.
AND HEY, I'VE GOT TO USE MY CONSTRUCTION TRAFFIC TO ACCESS THROUGH THIS SECTION THAT I'M GONNA PHASE THAT I'M, I'M IN CONSTRUCTION ON AND NOW I'VE GOT THREE MONTHS OF ADDED CONSTRUCTION TIME AND AN EXTRA $15,000 IN FEES.
SO THERE'S SOME BENEFIT, I THINK TO DOING IT SPLIT LIKE THIS THAT WE'LL SEE SOME DIVIDENDS ON AND THAT, THAT CONCLUDED THE ENGINEERING ON, UH, BUILDING AND PLANNING.
I WANTED TO JUST DO A VERY QUICK, VERY ROUGH, WE'VE STARTED GOING THROUGH THIS.
WE LOOK TO SEE, UH, AND I PICKED TWO IN OUR PLANNING DEPARTMENT, A PUD AND A FINAL PLATT TO TALK ABOUT.
I'M USING THE SAME PROCESS THAT WE DID FOR ENGINEERING AND, AND INSPECTION FEES WHERE WE'RE GOING BACK AND LOOKING AT TIME SPENT BY THE STAFF AND YOU CAN KIND OF SEE THE RED BOX IS WHAT WE'RE CURRENTLY CHARGING AND WE'VE GOT SOME COMPARABLE CITIES, UM, AND, AND RATES THAT THEY'RE CHARGING.
SO WE'VE GOT FRIENDSWOOD ON THERE, SUGARLAND, PEARLAND, UH, ALLEN, JUST FOR JOHN AND UH, FRISCO.
AND WHAT YOU SEE IS FOR OUR GENERAL AREA, WE'RE NOT THE LOWEST, BUT WE'RE, WE'RE LOW.
YOU CAN SEE OUR PLATTING, OUR FINAL PLATT, THAT'S A 50 ACRE MINIMUM SIZE, 150 LOT PLAT, WE'RE CHARGING ABOUT $1,800 RIGHT NOW FOR THAT STAFF.
TIME IS PROJECTING OUT CLOSER TO SIX GRAND FOR THAT.
UM, SO AGAIN, THOSE ARE BIG JUMPS THAT I WOULDN'T RECOMMEND US TAKING.
UM, OUR, OUR PUD COST, I DON'T REMEMBER THE EXACT NUMBER ON IT, BUT I BELIEVE IT WAS FRISCO ESQUE LEVEL, SO ABOUT 10 GRAND THERE.
I WOULD PUT US HIGHER THAN, THAN OUR NEIGHBORS, BUT STILL IN THE BALLPARK.
AND THAT COVERS CLOSER TO 50% OF OUR STAFF COST THERE THAN WE ARE RIGHT NOW.
SO BACK AGAIN, WHY, WHY ARE, AREN'T WE SHOOTING TO COVER A HUNDRED PERCENT OF THE COST? WE DEFINITELY CAN.
THE THE FEAR IS THAT WE'LL MAKE 'EM SO HIGH THAT WE WON'T EVEN GET ENOUGH THEN ENOUGH NEW DEVELOPMENT COMING IN TO COVER THE STAFF THAT WE HAVE NOW.
I THINK WHEN YOU'RE DEVELOPING AN 800 ACRE PUD, IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT $10,000 OR $20,000, I MEAN I DON'T, I I THINK THAT MAKES SENSE ON, ON THE SMALLER, I THINK THAT MAKES SENSE ON THE, ON THE LARGER DEVELOPMENTS, IT'S THE SMALLER GUYS THAT YOU, YOU LOSE AND, AND THERE'S A LOT, THERE'S A LOT OF THAT, OF THAT VOLUME AS WELL.
YEAH, I MEAN MAYBE WE CAN, WE CAN BREAK IT.
I'M JUST, I'M LOOKING AT AN 800 ACRE PUD I'M LOOKING AT AN 800 ACRE PUD.
IT IS IRRELEVANT IN AN 800 ACRE PUD WHETHER WE CHARGE $20,000 OR $6,000.
MAY MAYBE I SHOULD HAVE DONE A, A DIFFERENT COMPARISON THERE.
I WAS TRYING TO GET BIG NUMBERS SO YOU COULD SEE, YOU KNOW YEAH.
SO YOU COULD REALLY KIND OF SEE THE IMPACT.
I I ALSO, ON THIS ONE, I DON'T CARE AS MUCH ABOUT COMPARISONS TO OTHER CITIES BECAUSE THE STATES SOMEWHAT DEFINING THE FORMULA ON HOW WE CAN CALCULATE IT AND IT'S ALL TIED TO COSTS.
UM, WE KNOW WE RUN A LEAN CITY, UM, JOHN SURE FEELS IT EVERY YEAR AT BUDGET SEASON
SO YEAH, THEY'RE GONNA BE ABLE TO SHOW A HIGHER COST.
BUT WHAT NICK IS GETTING, AND I THINK IT'S A UNIFIED MESSAGE FROM EVERYONE UP HERE, IS WE WANT IT AS GOOD AS YOU CAN GET IT TO A HUNDRED PERCENT
[00:25:01]
COVERING THE COST.AND TO GO BACK TO THAT LEAN ASPECT IN THE TAX RATE, RIGHT? THERE'S TWO WAYS TO PAY FOR THIS.
YOU EITHER MAKE THE GUY WHO'S CAUSING THE COST PAY FOR IT OR YOU EAT IT IN YOUR TAX RATE.
AND THAT, AND HONESTLY, THAT'S, THAT WAS THE THE CONVERSATION I WANTED TO HAVE TONIGHT.
AM I GOING DOWN THE ROAD? YOU DON'T WANT ME TO GO DOWN OR, OR NOT, BUT, BUT I THINK SO WE, WE CAN DEFINITELY CHANGE THAT.
IF, IF YOU CAN FIGURE OUT A WAY TO SHOW THAT IT COSTS US LESS TO HAVE THE LITTLE GUY.
I THINK YOU NEED TO DO THAT SO THAT WHEN THEY COME IN WITH I'M SPLITTING GRANDMA'S FOUR ACRES INTO FOUR LOTS AND PUTTING HOUSES ON THEM, IF WE CAN SHOW THAT THAT DOESN'T COST THE SAME PER HOUSE AS AN 800 ACRE PUTT, UM, THEN I THINK WE CAN CONTROL THAT ISSUE ON PASSING ON SUCH A BURDENSOME COST TO THE SMALL DEVELOPER, UM, WHILE STILL MAKING SURE THE BIG DEVELOPERS ARE PAYING THEIR SHARE AND NOT PUTTING IT ON THE BACKS OF THE TAXPAYERS.
SO, SO SOMETHING SIMILAR TO WHAT WE'RE DOING IN THE ENGINEERING FIELD, I REALIZE YOU WANT US TO LOOK AT THOSE FEES, BUT SOMETHING SIMILAR TO THAT WHERE YOU HAVE THAT TWO STEP AND THERE'S SOME THRESHOLD THAT, ARE Y'ALL OKAY WITH A FLAT FEE AT THAT THRESHOLD OR DO YOU STILL WANT THAT TO BE A, A HOURLY TYPE? I WOULD JUST CHARGE 'EM BY THE HOUR ON WHATEVER THEY INCUR.
SO LIKE, IT DOESN'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE TO ME IF YOU'RE SPLITTING UP, IF YOU'RE BUILDING A 25 PERSON LOT AND YOU'RE A SMALL DEVELOPER OR YOU'RE A BIG DEVELOPER, IF YOU WASTE AN, IF YOU TAKE AN HOUR, IF YOU CONSUME AN HOUR OF THE CITY'S TIME, YOU PAY FOR THAT HOUR OF TIME.
I MEAN I, I KNOW IT'S KIND OF A PAIN TO CHARGE BY THE HOUR.
I CHARGE BY THE HOUR, BUT, AND YOU HAVE TO, YOU HAVE TO WRITE IT ALL DOWN.
BUT IF THERE'S SOME WAY WE CAN GET CLOSE TO JUST PASSING THE EXACT COST ON, THAT'S WHAT I'M LOOKING TO DO.
NOT LOOKING TO SUBSIDIZE THE LITTLE GUY, NOT LOOKING TO PENALIZE THE BIG GUY, JUST THIS IS WHAT YOU COST AND THIS OR VICE VERSA.
WE'RE LOOKING TO HELP THE BIG GUY FOR SURE.
AND WE'RE NOT LOOKING TO PENALIZE THE LITTLE GUY.
SO MAKE SURE IT'S NOT DOING THAT.
I MEAN AN HOUR'S, AN HOUR AND WHATEVER THEY CONSUME, WHATEVER STONE PAY FOR, WE COULD DEFINITELY TAXPAYERS.
SO WE'LL BACK UP ON OUR BUILDING AND PLANNING, PLANTING, PLANNING FEES AND GET THAT, PROBABLY NOT IN SEPTEMBER NOW, BUT PROBABLY MORE LIKE UH, OCTOBER TO YOU TO LOOK AT, UM, FROM AN ENGINEERING STANDPOINT, WE GONNA, THAT WON'T GET, WHAT ARE WE GONNA DO IN BETWEEN? SO WE'LL KEEP ASSESSING WHAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW FOR, FOR PLANNING AND BUILDING.
WE'RE NOT IN A BIND, WE WE'RE NOT REQUIRED BY STATE TO CHANGE IT.
SO FOR ENGINEERING, WE, WE ARE SEPTEMBER 1ST IS THE, IS THE DATE.
SO THERE'S A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT WAYS THAT, THAT WE CAN LOOK AT THIS AND, AND WE HAVE THE PUBLIC HEARING TONIGHT AND JUST KIND OF SPITBALLING IDEAS.
YOU CAN SAY WE'RE GOING TO ADOPT AS, AS RECOMMENDED AND DIRECT US TO BRING SOMETHING BACK SOON.
WHAT WE'LL DO IS WE WON'T CHARGE A FEE.
WE'LL MOVE OUR FEES FROM THE MIDPOINT TO THE CLOSEOUT AND ASSUMING THAT IT'S ADOPTED BY THAT POINT IN TIME, WE CAN ALWAYS CHANGE.
JUST ADOPT AND THEN CHANGE IT LATER.
SO I THINK MY SUGGESTION IS GONNA BE ADOPT, GO BACK AND DO IT.
AND IF YOU KNOW OVER THE NEXT, OVER THE FOURTH QUARTER, THIRD AND FOURTH QUARTER THIS YEAR, AND LET'S HAVE IT COMPLETELY READY TO GO BY BEFORE THE END OF THE YEAR.
AND, AND I'M, I'M SORRY, JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT I'M, I'M STILL ON THE SAME PAGE FOR THE ENGINEERING FEES.
WHEN WE, WHEN WE DO LOOK TO ADJUST, YOU DON'T WANT THE FLAT FEE.
YOU WANT THAT BY THE HOUR AS WELL.
I, I WANT IT, I WANT IT TO BE EASY ENOUGH FOR Y'ALL TO DO, BUT I WANT TO PUT THE COST ON WHAT PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY CONSUMING.
ALRIGHT, DOES ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANYTHING? YOU JUST WANNA START AT THE BEGINNING FOR MR. HICKS? SURE.
NO NEED I WATCHED ON FACEBOOK.
THERE BEING NO F OH ACTUALLY, DOES ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANYTHING PUBLIC COMMENTS.
5 29 BEING NO FURTHER BUSINESS, THIS MEETING IS ADJOURNED.