* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [00:00:02] PEOPLE, UH, LOOKS LIKE THEY MAY BE JUST LIBRARY PEOPLE OR SOMETHING. [1. Call to order and roll call of members] OKAY, SO I'M GONNA CALL THE, UM, AUGUST 17TH, 2023. HISTORIC DISTRICT COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING. UH, TO ORDER, THE FIRST, UH, ORDER OF BUSINESS IS A ROLL CALL. DAVE HAKE. PRESENT. JANINE HENDERSON. ABSENT. RICK PEARSON. PRESENT. SUSAN PIERCE. HERE. SUSAN SMI PIER . ROLLING. B VIEW PRESENT. AND MICHAEL HENDERSHOT HERE. WOW. WE ARE, OH, YOU WE'RE COMING. UM, THAT'S A GOOD TURNOUT FOR TODAY. [2. Approval of July 20, 2023, minutes] UH, MM-HMM. , UH, NEXT ORDER OF BUSINESS IS APPROVAL OF THE JULY 20TH MEET MINUTES, WHICH IS, UM, UH, THE HOUSE ON, UH, SIX 18 FOURTH STREET. HAS EVERYONE HAD A CHANCE TO REVIEW THE MINUTES? I HAVE THEM HERE. IF, IF ANYONE NEEDS ANY, UM, DISCUSSION OR COMMENTS ON IT, NONE. I WOULD ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO APPROVE. I SO MOVE THAT WE APPROVE THE MINUTES FROM JULY ROWLAND THE . I SECOND. SECOND BY, UH, SUSAN MEYER. UH, WITH THAT ALL IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE. AYE. AYE. THOSE OPPOSED? SAME SIGN THAT PASSES. UH, FOUR. OH UNANIMOUSLY. I YOU WEREN'T, YOU WEREN'T HERE. I WASN'T HERE. . UM, MOVING ON TO THE NEXT ORDER OF BUSINESS, WHICH IS, UH, CITIZEN COMMUNICATION. DO YOU SEE WE HAVE SOME CITIZENS IN THE OFFICE, IN THE, UH, AUDIENCE. AUDIENCE, UH, WOULD YOU CARE TO MAKE ANY COMMENTS? [4.A. Hold a public hearing and take action on a Certificate of Appropriateness, HC-23-0002, a request to replace siding, roofing, windows, add two windows on the south elevation and two windows on the north elevation, add a porch along the front of the house with a handicap ramp along the south side of the house, add a new porch roof over the porch, and replace the chain-link fence in the front yard, located at the southwest corner of North Wisconsin Avenue and 3rd Street, with the address 303 North Wisconsin Avenue.] OKAY. , UH, MOVING TO THE NEXT ORDER OF BUSINESS, WHICH IS TO HOLD A PUBLIC HEARING AND TAKE ACTION ON THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS, HC 23 DASH 0 0 2. A REQUEST TO REPLACE SIDING ROOFING WINDOWS AT TWO WINDOWS ON THE SOUTH ELEVATION, AND TWO WINDOWS ON THE NORTH ELEVATION AT A PORCH ALONG THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE WITH A HANDICAP RAMP ALONG THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE HOUSE AT A NEW PORT, NEW PORCH. ROOF OVER THE PORCH AND REPLACE THE CHAIN LINK FENCE IN THE FRONT YARD, LOCATED AT THE SOUTHWEST CORNER OF NO WISCONSIN AVENUE AND THIRD STREET WITH THE ADDRESS 3 0 3 NO WISCONSIN AVENUE. GOOD EVENING. SO THIS REQUEST IS TO REPLACE EXISTING VINYL SIDING WITH CEMENT FIBERBOARD. THE EXTERIOR COLORS HAVE NOT BEEN IDENTIFIED. REPLACE COMPOSITE ROOFING SHINGLES ON THE MAIN STRUCTURE. REPLACE EXISTING CHAIN LINK FENCE WITH A WOODEN PICKET FENCE. REPLACE THE EXISTING WINDOWS WITH VINYL SINGLE-HUNG WINDOWS. ADD TWO NEW WINDOWS ON THE SOUTH ELEVATION OF THE HOUSE AND TWO NEW WINDOWS ON THE NORTH ELEVATION OF THE HOUSE. ADD A PORCH TO THE FRONT ELEVATION WITH AN ATTACHED HANDICAP RAMP RAMP THAT RUNS ALONG THE SOUTH ELEVATION OF THE HOUSE AND ADD A NEW ROOF OVER THE PORCH. UM, AND HERE ARE A FEW VIEWS OF THE HOUSE FROM THE FRONT ON NO WISCONSIN AND THE SOUTH. I THINK THIS IS THE SOUTH, SOUTH ELEVATION FROM THIRD STREET. AND THERE'S A FEW MORE VIEWS. I'LL TRIED TO GET Y'ALL THE CURRENT CONDITION WITH ALL THE, THE VIEWS WITHOUT HAVING TO GO INTO THE GRASS TOO MUCH . SO THESE NEXT TWO SLIDES SHOW THE DESIGN GUIDELINES WITH, UM, THE APPROVED MATERIALS. UM, EVERYTHING THAT IS BEING PROPOSED DOES IS CONSISTENT WITH THE DESIGN GUIDELINES, EXCEPT FOR THERE'S THE WINDOWS MAY NOT BE, THEY'RE NOT A LIKE FOR LIKE REPLACEMENT, BUT THEY DO STILL FALL WITHIN THE DESIGN GUIDELINES BASED ON THE CHANGES MADE TO THE STRUCTURE OVER TIME, WINDOWS, DOORS, SIDING, ET CETERA. STAFF WOULD NOT CONSIDER THIS STRUCTURE AS CONTRIBUTING TO THE DISTRICT. THE PROPOSED EXTERIOR REPAIRS IN ADDITIONS ARE IN KEEPING WITH THE ARCHITECTURAL CHARACTER OF THE AREA IN BASIC FORM AND FINISHED MATERIAL. THE MATERIALS USED FOR THE SIDING, ROOF, PORCH, WINDOWS, AND FENCE ARE CONSISTENT WITH THE HISTORIC COMMISSION DESIGN GUIDELINES. THE EXISTING VINYL SIDING IS NOT CONSISTENT WITH THE HISTORIC COMMISSION DESIGN GUIDELINES. THE CEMENT FIBER BOARD PROPOSED WITH THIS PROJECT WILL BRING THE PROPERTY INTO COMPLIANCE WITH THE GUIDELINES. THE [00:05:01] COMPOSITION SHINGLE ROOF MATERIAL IS LIKE FOR LIKE REPLACEMENT OF THE EXISTING ROOF MATERIALS. THE WINDOW REPLACEMENT MATERIAL AND STYLE IS CONSISTENT WITH THE HISTORIC COMMISSION DESIGN GUIDELINES. HOWEVER, THE PING CONFIGURATION IS NOT LIKE FOR LIKE REPLACEMENT. THE PORCH EDITION IS CONSISTENT WITH THE DESIGN GUIDELINES. THE PORCH IS EIGHT FEET DEEP AND SPANS 100% OF THE FRONT ELEVATION. THE HANDICAP BRANCH RAMP ATTACHES TO THE FRONT OF THE PORCH AND RUNS ALONG THE SOUTH ELEVATION OF THE HOUSE. THE EXISTING CHAIN LINK FENCE IS NOT CONSISTENT WITH THE DESIGN GUIDELINES. THE PICKET FENCE WILL BRING THE PROPERTY INTO COMPLIANCE WITH THE GUIDELINES. AND THAT'S ABOUT IT. AND I'LL PUT BACK THE SLIDE FOR Y'ALL TO LOOK AT. OKAY. . UM, SO WITH THAT, I WILL OPEN THE, UM, PUBLIC HEARING AT 6 0 6. WOULD ANYONE LIKE TO SPEAK TO THE, UM, PROPOSED PROJECT? WELL, YOU WANT TO. THIS IS MR. LOVATO, HE'S THE APPLICANT. HI, HOW ARE Y'ALL? MY NAME IS ANDRES LOVATO. I'M THE PROPERTY OWNER. AND, UH, I GUESS I'D JUST FIRST AND FOREMOST LIKE TO THANK EVERYBODY FOR ALLOWING ME THIS OPPORTUNITY TO RESTORE THIS, THIS HOME. UM, I WANT TO KEEP EVERYTHING AS SHE HAD MENTIONED, AND IF THERE'S ANYTHING THAT I NEED TO, TO DO TO GET THAT HOME INTO, UH, ACCORDANCE WITH THE HISTORICAL DISTRICT, I WILL DO. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. IS THERE ANY QUESTIONS OR, UH, FOR THE, UM, APPLICANT OR THE, UH, STAFF? I HAVE A STAFF QUESTION REGARDING THE PICKET FENCE THAT WILL REPLACE THE CHAIN LINK FENCE. UH, MAYBE A DUMB QUESTION, BUT I ASSUME THIS WOULD BE WHITE, WHITE PICKET FENCE. I BELIEVE SO IS DO YOU? YEAH. COME ON, MR. LOBATO. YOU CAN ANSWER THAT ONE. UM, SO AS FOR THE PICKET FENCE, I WAS, UH, DEBATING, I REALLY, I WAS THINKING OF STAINING IT AND KEEPING IT IN A NATURAL LOOK TO KIND OF MATCH THE PORCH AS NATURAL. THAT WOULD LOOK AS POSSIBLE. SO THE, THE PORCH POSTS ARE GONNA BE THE ACTUAL POSTS. I WAS GONNA DO WHITE, BUT THE, LIKE BANISTERS OF THE PO OF THE IN WOOD. SO IT WOULD HAVE SOME WHITE ACCENTS TO IT, ESPECIALLY ON THEIR STAIRS WHEN THEY'RE GOING UP. I'D LIKE THE STAIRS TO ACTUALLY STAY WOOD AND THE SIDES WHITE. SO IT'D BE A LITTLE CONTRAST THERE. OKAY. AND TO BE HONEST, MAY I SAY ONE MORE THING? YEAH. I HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT, SO THE, EACH FROM POST TO POST ON THE PICKET FENCES, I HAVE CONSIDERED MAKING EACH POST WHITE AND IN THE PICKETS IN WOOD, IN, IN NATURAL COLOR. SO THAT, THAT WAS AN IDEA THAT I HAVE THAT I HAVEN'T REALLY NARROWED DOWN YET. OKAY. ONE, ONE QUESTION I HAD IS, YES SIR. UM, THE PROPOSAL ELIMINATES THE DOOR THAT'S ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE HOUSE. YES SIR. UM, BUT IT'S NOT OBVIOUS FROM THE, UH, FROM THE PACKAGE IF THERE'S A BACK DOOR OUT THE BACK OR IS THERE JUST THE ONE DOOR AND THE, THERE'S TWO DOORS THERE. YOU HAVE THE FRONT DOOR AND THEN YOU HAVE THAT SIDE DOOR. THAT'S KIND OF JUST RANDOM TO ME. I DON'T KNOW WHERE IT WENT AT ONE POINT, BUT YEAH, THAT'S, THOSE ARE THE ONLY TWO DOORS. SO MY PLAN WAS TO ELIMINATE THAT, MATCH IT WITH WINDOWS AND KEEP THAT FRONT DOOR. DOES THAT CREATE ANY FIRE ISSUES WITH NOT HAVING A, A SECONDARY, UH, EGRESS? NO, ACTUALLY, UM, THE WINDOWS WOULD COUNT AS EGRESS. OKAY. I, I DID VERIFY THAT WITH THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT. AND THEN THE OTHER QUESTION, I DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING IN THE PACKAGE ABOUT, UM, UM, SHUTTERS. UH, THERE ARE SHUTTERS ON THERE NOW. I'M JUST CURIOUS. UM, SO I WAS GONNA DO JUST THE REGULAR, THOSE WOODEN SHUTTERS THAT THEY KIND OF TILT UP AND DOWN OH, INSIDE, INSIDE THE HOUSE. SO ON THE OUTSIDE IT'S JUST GONNA BE THE WINDOW. YES, SIR. THE, THE SHUTTERS WOULD YES, SIR. WOULD BE ON THE INSIDE. YEAH. I GO BACK, SAME ISSUE I'VE BEEN HAVING LATELY. THE VINYL WINDOWS DON'T LOOK HISTOR BECAUSE THEY, THEY'RE MADE FOR MASONRY. SO THE ACTUAL WINDOW PROJECTS OUT PAST THE SIDING. AND THAT'S ALWAYS BEEN AN ISSUE I'VE HAD. IT DOESN'T LOOK APPROPRIATE TO ME AT ALL [00:10:01] THAT THE WINDOW SITS OUT FURTHER THAN THE BUILDING DOES. AND SO I PREFER THE METAL WINDOWS, ALUMINUM WINDOWS 'CAUSE THEY ACTUALLY RECESS BACK IN. UM, AND WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT THAT BEFORE, WORKING ON THAT THE NEXT TIME WE GO THROUGH THE HISTORIC STUFF. BUT THAT'S, THAT'S A BIG ISSUE. THEY JUST LOOK REALLY FUNNY ON A, ON A, UH, UH, A WOOD EXTERIOR BUILDING. UM, THE FACT THAT THE WINDOW STICKS OUT FURTHER THAN THE, THE FACE OF THE REST OF THE BUILDING. IF YOU PUT TRIM AROUND THE WINDOW THOUGH, DOESN'T THAT HIDE THAT THEY'RE MADE, THEY'RE MADE FOR MASONRY. SO THEY, THEY PROJECT OUT INCH QUARTER. YEAH. OH YEAH. I'M, YEAH. I DIDN'T KNOW THAT EITHER. YEAH, IT'S JUST THE WAY THAT, JUST THE WAY THE FIN IS FOR 'EM AND THEY REALLY TRULY WERE MADE FOR, MOST OF 'EM ARE MADE FOR MASONRY. SO THEY'RE MADE TO SIT BACK BEHIND SOMETHING AND THAT'S THE ONLY, YOU KNOW, THING WE'VE EVER HAD IN THE STORE DISTRICT. I THINK WE NEED A CHALLENGE THIS WITH AN ALUMINUM WINDOW. THEY ACTUALLY SIT BACK JUST A LITTLE BIT. THE, THEY, THE ACTUAL WINDOW SITS BACK FURTHER THAN THE FIN INSTEAD ABOUT WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE IN COSTS? IS THERE, I DON'T KNOW. I THINK, I THINK YOU'RE, YOU'RE SEEING THE, YOU'RE NOT REALLY SEEING MANY ALUMINUM WINDOWS. UM, YEAH. YOU'RE SEEING VINYL TAKING OVER THE MARKET FOR A LOT OF REASONS. UM, ENERGY EFFICIENCY. YEAH. THAT EASE, EASE OF INSTALL WITH THE NEW FAN AND ALL THAT. UM, SO I THINK IT'S USUALLY CHEAPER TO DO VINYL AS WELL. , I'M DEALING WITH THAT RIGHT NOW ON A PROJECT. SO, UM, BUT YEAH, I THINK FROM A COST PERSPECTIVE, IT'S GONNA, IT'S WHAT'S GOING ON. YEAH. CHEAPER. YEAH. PROBABLY MORE ENERGY EFFICIENT. YEAH, I THINK THEY ARE. WELL 'CAUSE YEAH, YOU DON'T HAVE A DIRECT THERMAL BRIDGE. THAT'S RIGHT. BUT IT'S STILL ON A WOOD FRAME HOUSE. I'VE ALWAYS HAD THE ISSUE THAT IT, THE WINDOW ACTUALLY POPS OUT FURTHER THAN THE WALL DOES. IF I MAY REAL QUICK INTERJECT JUST REAL QUICK, UH, STAFF'S REQUEST, IF Y'ALL CAN, WHEN Y'ALL ARE HAVING THE DISCUSSION, SPEAK INTO THE MICS. SO WHEN Y'ALL SIT BACK, THE MIC IS HAVING TROUBLE PICKING UP TO RECORD IT FOR THE MEETING RECORD. THANK YOU. UH, THAT'S THE ONLY THING I'VE GOT. I, I MEAN WE HAD THAT ONGOING DISCUSSION A YEAR AGO ABOUT THAT, AND I STILL, I STILL HAVE AN ISSUE WITH THE, UH, THE VINYL WINDOWS FOR THAT SAME THING. ONLY, ONLY WAY I'VE BEEN ABLE TO RECTIFY THAT I'VE SEEN IS PEOPLE RIPPING DOWN TWO BY FOURS FOR THE FRAME INSTEAD OF USING A ONE BODY TO GET THAT LOOK. SO IS THERE AN ACTION ITEM OUT OF THAT DISCUSSION? I'M BRINGING UP THAT FOR DISCUSSION BEFORE I GO INTO THAT. I JUST WONDER IF ANYBODY HAS ANY OTHER INPUT OR VIEW ON THAT RIGHT NOW? MAY I, EXCUSE ME, SIR? YEP. UM, I HEAR THAT YOU'RE CONCERNED THAT THE WINDOW MIGHT PROTRUDE PAST THE, THE, UH, HARDY BOARD. IS, IS, AM I CORRECT? UM, I CAN ASSURE YOU RIGHT NOW THAT THE WINDOWS THAT ARE ON THERE NOW AREN'T PROTRUDING AND ONCE THEY'RE TRIMMED UP, THEY'RE GONNA SIT FLUSH. SO THE WINDOWS HAVE BEEN REPLACED. IS THAT, I BELIEVE THEY HAVE, I DON'T KNOW. I BOUGHT THE PROPERTY AS IS. BUT THOSE WINDOWS THAT ARE THERE NOW SEEM TO BE PRETTY NEW. YES. OH, THEY, THEY'RE REPLACED. SO THEY ALREADY HAVE VINYL. OKAY. HE'S BASICALLY IMPRESSION ALIKE OTHER THAN THE, UM, CONFIGURATION. YEAH. I WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION BASED ON THE, THE STAFF, UH, PACKAGE, IT HAS REPLACED EXISTING WINDOWS WITH VINYL. SO THAT'S ALREADY ACTUALLY BEEN DONE. OKAY. IT'S THE NEW WINDOWS THEY HAD PREVIOUSLY. RIGHT. SOMETIME IN THE PAST BEEN REPLACED AND THEY WERE BEING REPLACED A SECOND TIME. SO HE, HE HAS NOT YET DONE IT. SO THEY'RE VINYL NOW AND HE'S VINYL IN. IS HE GO, ARE YOU GOING BACK WITH, UH, SIX OVER SIX AS SHOWN IN THESE PICTURES? THE SIX PANS? RIGHT. AND ACTUALLY I WASN'T GONNA GO SIX OVER SIX. IT WAS THAT GONNA BE THAT SPLIT WINDOW THAT JUST HAD SLIDES UP AND DOWN. A SINGLE HUNG. SINGLE HUNG, YES SIR. THAT, THAT'S ACTUALLY MORE IMPOR APPROPRIATE THAN THE SIX SIX OVER SIX . RIGHT. IT'S NOT A COLONIAL. YEAH. I'D RATHER SEE THAT. YEAH, I CAN SEE, I CAN SEE WHERE THIS IS STICKING. IT'S EXACTLY FLUSH. THAT'S WHAT I'M, I HAVE ISSUES WITH, BUT WE DON'T HAVE ANY, WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING IN, IN PLAY. IT'S TO STOP THAT. YEAH. YEAH. BUT THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING I DEFINITELY WOULD LIKE STAFF ON OUR NEXT REITERATION TO PASS ON WORKING ON, UH, THE APPROPRIATE WINDOW. SO I DON'T THINK VINYL IS APPROPRIATE FOR THIS. YOU CAN SEE THE NEXT HOUSE WHERE THEY HAVE THE OLD WINDOWS, HOW FAR THE WINDOW ON THE, ON YOUR PHOTOGRAPH ON YOUR RIGHT. MM-HMM. [00:15:01] , LOOK AT THOSE WINDOWS AND LOOK ON THE SIDE YOU CAN SEE IT'S FLUSH WITH WHERE THE SHUTTERS ARE. YOU LOOK AT THE HOUSE NEXT DOOR, YOU CAN SEE THE WINDOW SITTING BACK. OH, THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. IT ACTUALLY SUPPOSED TO SIT BACK. CORRECT. YEAH. THAT'S, AND YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T GET A SHADOW LINE, YOU DON'T GET ANY, UH, YOU CAN SPOT RIGHT OFF THE BAT. THAT IS NOT AN OLD HOUSE. MM-HMM. , . BUT WE, THAT IS NOT IN OUR, OUR, I DON'T THINK THAT'S IN OUR PURVIEW RIGHT NOW, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO, TO WORK ON THAT WHEN WE GET A CHANCE WITH STAFF. OKAY. IS THE INTENT TO ADD TRIM WHEN YOU DO THE SIGHTING? YOU'RE GONNA ADD TRIM BOARDS AND ALL THAT SORT OF STUFF? YES SIR. YES. YES SIR. ALRIGHT. IF THERE'S ANY ADDITIONAL DISCUSSION OR QUESTIONS, I'D LIKE TO ENTERTAIN A MOTION. I MAKE, UH, THE MOTION TO APPROVE AS RECOMMENDED BY STAFF. DO I HEAR A SECOND? I'LL SECOND. UH, THE MOTION WAS MADE BY RICK PEARSON, SECONDED BY, UM, SUSAN PIERCE. UH, WITH THAT, ALL IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE. AYE. AYE. THOSE OPPOSED SAME SIGN. HEARING THAT, THAT PASSES UNANIMOUSLY. UH, SO I'M GONNA CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AT SIX 16 [5. Commissioners Comments] AND, UH, MOVE TO THE NEXT ORDER OF BUSINESS, WHICH IS, UH, COMMISSIONER'S COM. COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS? NO COMMENTS, NO COMMENT. I DON'T HAVE ANY COMMENTS. I DON'T HAVE A COMMENT, BUT I DO HAVE A QUESTION. WHEN WILL WE REVIEW THE DESIGN GUIDELINES? IS THAT ON THE CALENDAR AT ANY TIME? IS IT DONE EVERY FEW YEARS, OR HOW OFTEN IS THAT DONE? YEAH, WE TALKED, SO THANK YOU FOR THE QUESTION. UM, AT THIS TIME, WE DON'T HAVE A PLAN TO BRING IT BACK, UM, RIGHT NOW, UNLESS IT'S REQUESTED BY SOMEBODY TO BRING IT BACK. UM, I THINK WE WENT THROUGH THIS ABOUT TWO YEARS AGO, UPDATING 'EM. OKAY. UM, SO YOU, YOU TYPICALLY DON'T BRING IT BACK. UM, I MEAN, I DON'T HAVE A NUMBER IN MIND, BUT I WOULD SAY AT LEAST FIVE YEARS AT A MINIMUM. UM, BUT IF ANY CONCERNS ARE BROUGHT UP BY Y'ALL, UM, WE'RE HAPPY TO BRING IT BACK AND HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT IT IF THERE'S ANYTHING Y'ALL WANT CHANGED. SO IT WOULD, IT WOULD PROBABLY BE MORE OF COMING FROM Y'ALL THAN STAFF INITIATED. COULD THAT JUST BE A SINGLE ITEM, LIKE WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT? OR IS IT THE WHOLE WINDOWS? YEAH, JUST THE WINDOWS. UM, YEAH, I MEAN, WE CAN BRING IT UP. WE CAN HAVE A, UM, ITEM ON THE NEXT AGENDA FOR A DISCUSSION, UM, IF Y'ALL LIKE TO DO THAT, AND THEN WE CAN GET SOME GUIDANCE FROM Y'ALL OF HOW WE WANNA MOVE FORWARD. UM, OR WE COULD JUST BRING BACK AN AMENDMENT TO THE GUIDELINES, UM, HOWEVER Y'ALL WOULD WANT TO HANDLE IT. YEAH. I, I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE WOULD PROPOSE IS FOR OUR NEXT MEETING AS TO HAVE A DISCUSSION AROUND THE, UM, WINDOW DESIGN. OKAY. IF WE CAN JUST PEEL THAT PIECE OUT AND, UM, AND TAKE A LOOK AT, TAKE A LOOK AT THAT. 'CAUSE I SEE WHAT YOU'RE, YOU, YOU'VE BROUGHT IT UP BEFORE AND IT'S GONE OVER MY HEAD. YEP. BUT THE COMMENT THAT YOU MADE WHERE IT SITS BACK, YOU KNOW, IT STRIKES HOME. THAT'S WHAT MAKES A, YOU KNOW, NEWER HOUSE SORT OF UNAPPEALING BECAUSE EVERYTHING IS ON THE SAME PLANE WHEN IT COMES TO MM-HMM. TO THE WINDOWS. IT, THERE IS A YEAH. WHAT YOU'RE LOSING IS THE SHADOW LINE. THE SHADOW EFFECT AND EVERYTHING ELSE. AND THAT'S, THAT REALLY IS BECAUSE MOST HOUSES NOW HAVE A MASONRY FRONT. SO THEY DO THE WINDOWS WHERE THEY SIT FLUSH. IT'S SO IT'S ATTACHED TO THE FRAMING AND THEN THE BRICKS COMES OUT. RIGHT. EXACTLY. IT'S VERY INDICATIVE OF THE, THE METHODS USED NOWADAYS VERSUS THE, THE OLDER, UH, INSTALLS ON THE WINDOWS. IT'S LITERALLY, YOU'RE SEEING EXACTLY HOW IT'S, IT'S INSTALLED ON THE, ON THE BUILDING. RIGHT. THAT'S WHY I'M SLEPT. I'M SO PASSIONATE ABOUT THE FACT WHEN SOMEONE WANTS TO PUT, YOU KNOW, TAKE OUT THEIR OLD WOOD WINDOWS AND PUT IN VINYL WINDOWS BECAUSE IT'S NOTICEABLE, IT CHANGES THE LOOK OF THE HOUSE. AND YOU CAN, YOU CAN STILL GET 'EM WITHOUT NAILING FINS. THEY, THEY, THEY EXIST. THAT'S TRUE. YOU KNOW, AND THAT'S PART OF IT IS YOU, YOU PUT THE NAILING FIN ON THERE AND IT'S DICTATING WHERE IN THAT WALL THAT THAT WINDOW SITS, RIGHT. SITS AT THE FACE OF THIS, THE SHEATHING, BASICALLY AT THE FENCE. UM, IF YOU TAKE IT OFF, YOU CAN SET IT BACK AND DO IT SORT OF MORE TRADITIONALLY. WHEN DID THIS START CHANGING? I THINK IT'S, AND WE CAN, WE CAN CERTAINLY ADD THAT TO THE AGENDA IF YOU'D LIKE, AND I WOULDN'T MIND HEARING SOME, UH, INFORMATION ABOUT THE PRICE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO. OKAY. SO WE CAN BRING THAT BACK AND PUT AN AGENDA ITEM ON THE NEXT AGENDA. UM, JUST FOR A DISCUSSION ITEM. UM, WE CAN BRING SOME INFORMATION ON PRICING, UM, BETWEEN METAL AND VINYL AND, UM, AND THEN WE CAN HAVE THE DISCUSSION WITH Y'ALL OF WHAT Y'ALL WANNA SEE [00:20:01] CHANGED, IF ANYTHING, TO THE DESIGN GUIDELINES. OKAY. OTHER THAN THAT, NO COMMENT. NO COMMENT, NO COMMENTS. OKAY. UM, STAFF COMMENTS, NO COMMENTS. OKAY. SO THAT BRINGS US TO ADJOURNMENT AND, UM, THERE'S NO DISCUSSION ON THAT NECESSARY. SO UNLESS THERE'S ANY OBJECTIONS, I WILL ADJOURN THE MEETING AT SIX 20. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.